Misconceptions about gods and the Bible

@LordShadowfire [quote]"When I use a word," said @TheoreticSkeptic rather crossly, "it means just what I want it to — neither more nor less."[/quote]

I have nothing to do with it. That is what the word is. It was that long before I was born and will be long after. In every language known to man. If I wanted to use the word another way it would be wrong.

[quote]So if I were to worship a statue of the Morrigan (not the concept behind the statue, the literal statue), would it be a god?[/quote]

Yes. Either way. The concept or the statue.

[quote]Could it perform miracles?[/quote]

Irrelevant. Performing miracles isn't required.

[quote]I do take some exception to this definition. A gust of wind is not spirit, but spirits can sometimes control the wind.[/quote]

Here is what the problem is with your reasoning. When I say what is a god you think of one specific god and think all others have to be like that. The only thing gods have to have in common is that they are worshipped/venerated. You are also doing the same thing with spirit. You think it has to mean a spirit being.

God is a word, a title, not a name. The word comes from a root meaning mighty/strong. It has always been applied to anything or anyone that is venerated. People, objects made of metal, wood, stone, idols, anything.

Spirit is a word that means invisible active force producing visible results. It comes from a root meaning breath/blow. So, in the Bible when the Hebrew ruach or the Greek pneuma (from where we get the English pneumatic and pneumonia) appears it can be translated, depending on the context, as breeze, breath, wind, compelled mental inclination or spirit beings. Spirit beings are simply beings we can't see.

@BibleData [quote]I have nothing to do with it. That is what the word is. It was that long before I was born and will be long after. In every language known to man. If I wanted to use the word another way it would be wrong.[/quote]
Well, I'll be a primate's parent's sibling. My first instinct when you wrote that was to go straight to the dictionary. Turns out you were right. A god is anything people worship. Moving on.

[quote]Spirit is a word that means invisible active force producing visible results. It comes from a root meaning breath/blow. So, in the Bible when the Hebrew ruach or the Greek pneuma (from where we get the English pneumatic and pneumonia) is appears it can be translated, depending on the context, as breeze, breath, wind, compelled mental inclination or spirit beings. Spirit beings are simply beings we can't see.[/quote]
I have no doubt that if you go with the original Hebrew definition, that's true. I was referring more to the word as it is currently used.

@LordShadowfire You don't see the contradiction in your post? You said I was right. You saw it in the dictionary. Then you go on to say that isn't the way the word is currently used?

@BibleData I said you were correct about the word god. Not the word spirit. Spirit is no longer used in the sense of meaning an invisible force like the wind, because we know the physics behind air flow.

Mind you, I'm not arguing that there aren't spirit beings. I know they exist. I'm just saying, the wind isn't a spirit in the modern sense.

@LordShadowfire [quote]I said you were correct about the word god. Not the word spirit.[/quote]

My bad.

[quote]Spirit is no longer used in the sense of meaning an invisible force like the wind, because we know the physics behind air flow.[/quote]

Oh. The primitives were dumb so the word changed? No. Pneumonia and pneumatic. The word is still used the same. The Greek, Hebrew, English, old and new. All mean the same. It's a basic principle.

@BibleData Fine. But I hope you don't run around in real life and tell people that the wind is a spirit.

@LordShadowfire What you should say is that you hope I don't run around in real life and tell people that the wind is a spirit being. And that isn't what I do. That isn't what I'm saying.

Define spirituality, if you would, please.

@BibleData [quote]What you should say is that you hope I don't run around in real life and tell people that the wind is a spirit being.[/quote]
Nitpick all you like. To the rest of the world, it's the same thing.
[quote]Define spirituality, if you would, please.[/quote]
of, relating to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal
Source: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/spiritual

@LordShadowfire Okay, using spirit in a sentence - without the need of the Googlemobile - he was mean spirited.

My definition of spirit doesn't change your understanding nor does it indicate you are wrong. It just indicates the meaning of the word applies to a broader range. The same goes for the word gods.

So, if I say I'm riding in a railroad car it doesn't mean [b][u]just[/u][/b] that I'm riding in an automobile. So I have to be more specific by adding railroad to car.

@BibleData [quote]Okay, using spirit in a sentence - without the need of the Googlemobile - he was mean spirited.[/quote]
You didn't ask for a definition of spirit. You asked for a definition of spirituality. Two different animals.

Here's another sentence using the same word.
[quote]About 20 years ago, I spent the night in a house still occupied by the [i]spirit[/i] of the former owner.[/quote]
Nope that I did not use the word being after the word spirit, because anyone with a functioning brain knows what I'm talking about.

@LordShadowfire [quote]You didn't ask for a definition of spirit. You asked for a definition of spirituality. Two different animals.[/quote]

How could the definition of spirituality which you gave, be "of, relating to, or consisting of spirit" be interpreted as being a different animal than spirit?

You only think that because what you got in your head is a limited incomplete application. You have an interest in ghosts and the supernatural?

From my website on spirit: "The word ghost comes from the German word geist and has the same meaning as the word spirit. In folklore the words are often used in connection with the superstitious belief in the immortal soul. At 1 Samuel 28:7-25 King Saul goes to the spirit medium of En-dor. Earlier Jehovah had rejected the King for his faithlessness and the prophet Samuel had also rejected him just prior to his own death. Saul wanted to contact the spirit of Samuel, he wanted help from the prophet one last time. Some Bibles present the spirit of Samuel the witch produces written as "Samuel" in quotation marks, or as "what appeared to be Samuel" because it isn't actually Samuel, it's a demon trying to deceive Saul into thinking it's Samuel. Saul himself earlier had had the spirit mediums removed because it was against the Law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:31; 20:6, 27; 1 Samuel 28:3)" - https://semmelweisreflex.com/pneuma/prefacetop.php

So - the Latin spiritus mundi means Spirit of the world. the German zeitgeist means spirit of the times or age. Oxford defines zeitgeist as "the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time."

So, in your sentence on the house being occupied by the spirit of the former owner, someone with, as you say "half a brain" would assume you are talking about a ghost, but someone who were a little more informed would probably come to the same conclusion, but would also think it interesting that it could mean the influence of the man's spirit, his compelled mental inclination was evident in the house. So you could see personal markers of the man's personality, his thinking, his life experiences. The times he lived in.

Someone with a pagan believe system might think the man, in a metaphysical sense, was still occupying the house. An informed Bible student would think it was either an active imagination, a tall tale or a demonic presence like the spirit medium mentioned above.

What connection do you believe there is with the spirit and the soul?

@BibleData [quote]How could the definition of spirituality which you gave, be "of, relating to, or consisting of spirit" be interpreted as being a different animal than spirit?[/quote]
Simple. A spirit is a nonphysical being. Spirituality is [i]about[/i] nonphysical beings.
[quote]You only think that because what you got in your head is a limited incomplete application.[/quote]
Nope.
[quote]You have an interest in ghosts and the supernatural?[/quote]
Absolutely. I alluded to a personal experience with the spirit of a dead person. What I saw that night sparked a lifelong fascination.
[quote]So, in your sentence on the house being occupied by the spirit of the former owner, someone with, as you say "half a brain" would assume you are talking about a ghost, but someone who were a little more informed would probably come to the same conclusion, but would also think it interesting that it could mean the influence of the man's spirit, his compelled mental inclination was evident in the house. So you could see personal markers of the man's personality, his thinking, his life experiences. The times he lived in.[/quote]
I mean, maybe. If someone is confused, it's easy enough to explain my intent. I meant to say the place was haunted. As in, occupied by a nonphysical being, or spirit.
[quote]Someone with a pagan believe system might think the man, in a metaphysical sense, was still occupying the house.[/quote]
Simplest explanation is usually right.
[quote]An informed Bible student would think it was either an active imagination, a tall tale or a demonic presence like the spirit medium mentioned above.[/quote]
"Informed", lol. The Bible describes spirits of the dead, or ghosts if you prefer. King Saul consulted the spirit of Samuel, who lectured him about bothering the dead. Sound like a demon to you?
[quote]What connection do you believe there is with the spirit and the soul?[/quote]
I've heard so many different definitions of the word soul that I just dismiss it at this stage. Allow me instead to define a human as I have come to understand the concept. A physical body, occupied by a spirit from the moment the brain begins to form. (I am convinced that the brain functions as a sort of control panel for operating the body.)

Yes, I know you defined a soul for me the other day, and I remember being very pleased with that definition, but for some idiot reason it escapes me at the moment.

@LordShadowfire [quote]Simple. A spirit is a nonphysical being. Spirituality is about nonphysical beings.[/quote]

Correct. But that's only one example. It may seem archaic or pedantic of me to insist on being familiar with a word that isn't commonly used in the way I suggest, but there's a good reason for it. It gives you a broader understanding of what spirit is. Maybe it tells you something about the event you experienced in that house.

[quote]Absolutely. I alluded to a personal experience with the spirit of a dead person. What I saw that night sparked a lifelong fascination.[/quote]

I didn't know it was a personal experience at first, I just thought it was an example of spirit being used in a sentence. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with your definition of a spirit as it is commonly used, i.e. ghost. Holy ghost. Holy spirit. Same thing. I only differ due to my Bible understanding that when we die that's it, so any ghost anyone sees is demonic. Like Samuel.

I've had a few experiences similar to your own.

[quote]I mean, maybe. If someone is confused, it's easy enough to explain my intent.[/quote]

That isn't what I was saying, even understanding that your sentence was about a ghost and what that is I also saw other applications as well that give me a broader picture then the limitations you put on the application of spirit as being exclusively spirt beings. There is more to spirituality than the supernatural.

[quote]Simplest explanation is usually right.[/quote]

But I think my explanation is the simplest.

[quote]The Bible describes spirits of the dead, or ghosts if you prefer. King Saul consulted the spirit of Samuel, who lectured him about bothering the dead. Sound like a demon to you?[/quote]

Yes. It does. Prior to Samuel's death God had rejected Saul and by removing his (God's) spirit caused a bad spirit to take it's place. When God removes his spirit demons can take over, or his mental inclination would be contrary to God's spirit. So, God rejected Saul and Samuel, of course, had done the same, so why would Samuel's "spirit" come to tell Samuel anything? You say to lecture Saul on bothering the dead, but the Bible teaches all throughout that when we die, that's it. We die. Demons deceive people. That's what they do. They would have us think the Bible is wrong. That's why Saul himself had removed all of the spirit mediums. That's why it was an capital offense to the Jews.

So, in my broader application above, where the spirit of the man, not the nonphysical being, but his spirit as in he was there in spirit. Demons can use that to deceive people.

[quote]Yes, I know you defined a soul for me the other day, and I remember being very pleased with that definition, but for some idiot reason it escapes me at the moment.[/quote]

I know the feeling, man. Lately I can't remember any freakin' thing. The soul is basically the life. Like the Hebrew/Greek words for spirit can be translated as wind, breath, etc, the words for soul can be translated as life. So you could read one Bible translation that uses the word soul and another where it uses life. Translators, like anyone else, are biased, and tend to want to support the traditional immortal soul doctrine adopted by apostate Christianity.

https://similarworlds.com/christianity/4581315-The-Immortal-Soul-The-immortal-soul-is-a-pagan