@BlueSkyKing the universe is intelligent by design. to say there might not be some order to the how's and why's of our existence is pretty closeminded and foolish. astrology tells us we are spiritually, mentally and physically part of a greater order in this universe.
@Penny [quote] the universe is intelligent by design. to say there might not be some order to the how's and why's of our existence is pretty closeminded and foolish. astrology tells us we are spiritually, mentally and physically part of a greater order in this universe[/quote]
Our solar system is created just to program humans? What’s the evidence for the intelligent designer? Not the jealous god of the Old Testament. Any fortune telling is forbidden and the Book of Daniel mocks astrologers. Also, since there are many types of astrology, which ones can we ignore?
@Penny I don't normally like to see people being rude to others, but in this case I don't blame you telling that guy to piss off. I find him annoying as well.
@HairbrushDiva Where was I being rude? If astrology is true, it should be able handle criticism. Think about it, if no one can show it works and how it works, what makes astrology real? Wouldn’t evidence for astrology make history? Be a shoe in for a Nobel?
Astrology is a fraud. Thousands of websites are out to fleece us. Astrologers make money telling people what they already know. Then are those that read a book and become instantaneous literate. When someone asks my birthday for astrology, I lie. They still nod their heads knowingly and start forming basic stereotypes. Completely based on a calendar.
@BlueSkyKing its not about forming stereotypes. its about trying to understand others better. you dont seem like a smart guy but perhaps if you studied astrology seriously by reading about it and through observation of people you willl learn how uncannily accurate it can be. theres no need for a scientific explanation of everything in this world. sure science can tell us basically how a seed becomes a flower but it cant tell us why. and astrology is all about why. maybe why you cant get a grip on it. how it works is plain to see as well. astrology tells us that at the vantage point of our birth from the particular place on the planet that we are born, the heaven form like a map of who we will be or become, what heavenly influences we will have in our lives. serious astrology i smore than just about sun signs. saying astrology isn't real is like saying math is easy becasue you can do 2 + 2. you just dont get it. why do you spend your energy fighting about something you obviously know nothing about? get learnt then come back and talk.
@Penny How is this known? Has astrology (particularly the Western which you follow) past tests? Being uncannily accurate it should pass with flying colors. If you want to get serious, then get serious. Astrology should be able to defend itself.
Do a simple search for astrology research results and see what pops up. Nothing. Because no actual research has ever been done. What organization would finance such a task?
Provide the links that show it works and how it works. I’ll gladly check and get back.
@BlueSkyKing do it yourself. i dont need ot prove anything to you. if you dont want to belivee in it thats your choice just dont go knocking it if you dont know anything aboutit
@HairbrushDiva Don’t seek approval. SW is all about opinions. I want to judged based on my actions, not fate of birth.
When I want to know a person I’ll be using conversation. There is no shortage of "professional" astrologers or psychics. They don’t ask for a birth certificate, you’re say-so and money is fine. Give your information to ten different astrologers and you’ll get ten different results. Astrologers boast about customer satisfaction, not accuracy. Astrology would be useful if it predicted the future, its original claim. You’re paying up front to be told what is already known.
@BlueSkyKing I don't believe that was its original claim. I thought its original claim was to analyse people's characters. I don't believe that "Give your information to ten different astrologers and you’ll get ten different results" is right either.
@HairbrushDiva The origins of astrology dates back millennia. Giving credit, back then, astrologers really did the hard work. On observing the sky for decades. Even Galileo, the first person to point a telescope to the night sky, did astrology. Astrologers got paid by the rich nobility not by average people. After all, they were the few people that knew their date of birth. Most modern birth certificates worldwide only records the date. Time of day doesn’t matter for legal purposes.
Years ago there was a series of tests that professional astrologers created themselves and sponsored by a worldwide publication.
Think of this. An expert astrologer draws up your detailed chart based on your accurate natal data. You are given this horoscope, and two others of different people. Would you be able to tell which one is yours? Because if not, what does it mean to say that astrology works? Whenever this test is done, people are not able to do this with any greater probability than pure chance. (i.e. one in three would get it right.)
Possibly the most detailed test of astrology using this type of method, was performed by Shawn Carlson. His paper, “A Double-blind Test of Astrology”, was published in the prestigious peer reviewed scientific journal Nature, in 1985. The interesting thing is that the San Francisco chapter of the National Council for Geometric Research recommended the 28 professional astrologers who took part, and (with Carlson), designed the tests. They also predicted, in advance, what they would consider to be a successful test.
[b]Two tests were performed:
Test #1:[/b] Astrological charts were prepared for 83 subjects, based on natal data (date, time and place of birth), provided by the subjects. Each subject was given three charts: one chart based on their own natal data, and two charts derived from natal data of other people. Each subject was asked to identify the chart that most correctly described them. [u]In only 28 of the 83 cases, the subject chose their own chart. This is the exact success rate expected for random chance. The astrologers predicted that the subjects would select their own chart more that 50% of the time.[/u]
[b]Test #2: [/b]116 subjects completed California Personality Index surveys and provided natal data (date, time and place of birth). One set of natal data and the results of three personality surveys (one of which was for the same person as the natal data) were given to an astrologer who was to interpret the natal data and determine which of the three CPI results belonged to the same subject as the natal data. [u]In only 40 of the 116 cases, the astrologers chose the correct CPI. As with test #1, this is the exact success rate expected for random chance. The astrologers predicted that they would select the correct CPI profiles in more that 50 per cent of the trials.[/u]
[b]Conclusion by Carlson:[/b] “We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable chance to succeed. It failed. [u]Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable suggestion made by advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the “minimum” effect they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.[/u]
“I have not yet received a serious scientific challenge to the paper. The newsletter of the American Federation of Astrologers Network published a response in January (1986). I was very disappointed to see that it largely consists of personal attacks. Its few substantive criticisms are attributable to ignorance of the experiment, of the CPI, and of basic scientific methodology.”
@BlueSkyKing Those tests were based on LIES. Nobody in my neighbourhood believes them or takes them even slightly seriously BECAUSE they were based on LIES. I even know one guy who set up his own website and he doesn't allow those tests to be mentioned on it because they were based on LIES and therefore he treats the whole thing as spam. I think that's an excellent policy, don't you?
@HairbrushDiva Lies or self deception? In your opinion, is there any acceptable test for astrology claims? Usually the problem is those that promote astrology won’t make such claims. No statistics exist. Astrology changed its role due to other fortune tellings ability to give instant results. Do you give tarot card readers equal respect? Palm readers? A hundred fifty years ago, people reading the bumps on heads was more popular than astrology.
@BlueSkyKing I think you are looking at the whole thing from the wrong angle. For a start, the main intention of astrology is not fortune-telling. Its primary purpose is character analysis. The statistics to show it's true in that department are overwhelming.
If you give someone false information just to see what they say, that is not self-deception at all, it's nothing of the sort. It's LIES. No sane person would lie about their birthday, especially not where I live because most of us here are proud of our birthdays (mine is October 2nd).
@HairbrushDiva [quote] For a start, the main intention of astrology is not fortune-telling. Its primary purpose is character analysis. [b]The statistics to show it's true in that department are overwhelming.[/b][/quote]
Cheap rate psychology that can be self taught, so obviously it’s not nearly as complex as claimed. No educational prerequisites. No explanation of the physics which should be easy to show and explain.
How about linking some TRUTH? Where did you find [i]any[/i] statistics? Go into details. How was data collected? What data was collected? How many people! Do these statistics cover all age groups? Any difference with gender? Religion? Economics? What organization would finance such a task? You speak of statistics, where are they?
Over in India, astrology has been declared a science by its judicial system. Their version doesn’t mesh with the one you like. Both can’t be true, but both can be false.
@BlueSkyKing you know, astrology is more of an art than a science. can science explain why some people are gifted artists and some are not? no it cant.
@Penny That’s an excuse for lack of evidence? No, I don’t know. It’s an ancient fraud that continues to be a modern fraud. All astrology websites are commercial with thousands of soothsayers out to fleece the credulous.
