BJP Took Down English Subtitled Chanyaka Series

@ABCDEF7 Because my focus in philosophy was military science and statecraft at first, and studied Chanakya as extensively as one could in the English language, and that's a random fact I recall. I have no reason to make it up.

@Dignaga I understand your interests. But there must be some source of this information that make it a fact that BJP produced that serial. I guess you didn't made an assumption.

@ABCDEF7 There probably is a source, but you gotta factor in I started my studies in military science and statecraft prior to 9/11 2001. Back then it was all dial up 56k internet, and I mostly relied on books. I was a member of www.sonshi.com, owned 19 translation of Sun Tzu's Art of War, back then I could recite the Ames version by heart, and had a few dozen writers, primary text translations under my belt, and I don't even know how many General's reading lists I gobbled up (meant for officers, but I was enlisted).

Basically that far back I have no clue. I do think it was a internet article though (in English, I couldn't translate sites back then) because my memory seems to indicate that was where I read about the controversy of BJP nationalism, in making Alexander the Great speak in English, and stupid lines of hindu nationalism like (very rough paraphrase from my memory) "Greece is a country with only one good, while india is a nation that gave birth to millions!". They later on changed it to the actor playing Amexander the Great in the show using Greek, and faced endless ridicule because the Greeks then were just as polytheistic as the indians were, infact the Indo-Greek buddhist parthenon had for centuries after many of those greek gods still quite visible in artifacts found today.

I hold Chanakya in very high regard. Just it's very annoying when talking to Jains and they have a very dufferent memory of him, and they get annoyed the jains alexander encountered, or that traveled back west didn't remotely behave like Jains. In English works he seems like a pretty straight forward personality, but in india he is several different people depending on who's take you follow.

@Dignaga The TV series Chanakya was not funded or produced by the political party BJP in India. The serial Chanakya (1991) was written, directed and also played by Dr, Chandraprakash Dwivedi as Chanakya himself in 1991. And was produced by his brother Prakash Dwivedi. And they are not part of BJP.

There can be many different reasons why some video can be removed from YouTube.

Everything that happens in India can't be attributed to BJP or Government of India without any real evidence.

Still you may have your own reasons to hate BJP or P.M. Modi. But it is always better to be factful when alleging some one/entity.

@ABCDEF7 I read otherwise, but I'll look back into it someday (I'm currently reading two medieval buddhist works from India on Logic and Time), but you certainly shouldn't make the mistake that I confuse India with the BJP. I know that isn't even remotely the case. You are not the first Indian I've ever talked to. I'm not discounting you, nor am I upset, but I'm not exactly new to Indian Philosophy or History, and have a better awarenes than many indians here in the US of what is happening in Indian politics. Just this isn't the place to discuss it, if I tried to the posts would get zero views.

@Dignaga That is good you have better awareness. Today there are lot of biased media in US to spread wrong information about India.

Your this post about BJP taking down English Subtitled Chanyaka Series, very well tells that you are not confused or misinformed.

@ABCDEF7 Chanakya as a subject in America is mostly on his statecraft, so they are either economist or strategic studies and statecraft people. I don't think his Neeti has been fully translated yet, so it isn't modern classical indian revivalism like how in China you have people dress in Ming or Qin dynasty dress and "larp" the lifestyle.

Someone who only knows India of that era would be oblivious about Hinduism. It would be late vedic and early buddhist and jainism, and a few other small schools.

The buggest problem for a long time I had was finding later texts the predated Islam entering India. I found two, but they mostly are centered around his work. Then you get llmucj later hindu works that randomly insert chapters on strategy or statecraft in with religious text, but it comes long after the Muslims enter.

I have for example no knowledge of a pure Indian strategic work, or one on statecraft by a buddhist or jain philosopher before the Muslims came. I'm absolutely certain they existed, but I just don't know of any. I searched hard a few years back. India isn't the best place for record keeping.

@Dignaga
Chanakya is the stuff of myth. You seem to place importance on the cleverly written stories about him. What benefit, practical or otherwise, have you derived from your reading of those tales?

@sree251 People who should be dead are alive now, and people who ought to be dead are dead. Simple as that.

@Dignaga
Are you being deliberately obtuse? If you do not want to engage me in discussion, that's ok. Your lumping Chanakya with Sun Tzu boggled my mind. I am curious by nature, and don't dismiss anything without checking it out. You came across as serious and scholarly based on your revelation of your reading list.

@sree251 I systemmatically tracked down every work I could find in English written on statecraft and military strategy back then from around the ancient world. Chanakya is the best Ancient India put forward.

I didn't contradict myself, nor did I make a paradoxial statement. You merely didn't understand. If you are ever serious about studying in this area I can go into a explanation as to why complete and accurate biographies matter, but that discussion will involve topics of cognition, neurology and hermeunetics, and several other subjects, and would take a few weeks to fully explain. There are no simple shortcuts in this field unfortunately, it can take decades to grasp simple concepts. And no, I am not insulting you, nor hold you in in some sort of ill manner. I have no opinion on you period. This is just a very important field, like the study of medicine, but the stakes are much, much higher.

@Dignaga
Cite me one tactic that defines Chanakya's strategy.

@sree251 Chanakya wasn't a tactician. In modern military science, we split Tactics from Strategy and add a third, called Operations.

Are you trying to imply I don't know who Chanakya was, or never heard of him before, and that you know it all? WTF? I clearly at the very least sat through this long TV series. Might of picked up a few concepts from that alone.

Watch it, I encourage you to.

@Dignaga
I did not say you did. Chanakya is new to me. Help me to understand your perception of Chanakya's principles.

@Dignaga
If anyone who doesn't know about Chanayka and never heard of him, it's me. I admitted that. I was taken aback by your ranking him right up there with Sun Tzu. I did check up on him after reading your post yesterday. Found nothing more than Hindu folklore in the vein of the Bagavad Gita.

Cite one concept you picked up.

@sree251 Chanakya predates the Bhagavad Gita. If there is a single thinker from India that is authentically fully Indian, it is Chanakya. He predates Hinduism, but at the same time seems to of solidified the understanding of what it is to be a Indian- just last I checked I haven't found a full translation of that work.

If you are just getting started with Chanakya, look up his Maxims (either under Maxims of Chanakya or Kautilya Three different versions exist in English last I checked, I hand copied all of them repeatedly (I oftentimes hand copy primary texts, sometimes it takes me months).

After that read his main work. My first exposure isn't recommended, Thomas Cleary's "The Art Of Wealth", but it is accessible. I beleive wikipedia commons now has a out of copyright translation.

Don't touch the secondary source materials (studies on Chanakya, essays, thesis, or works on Chanakya as a businessman, etc). Just focus on the primary texts, read and reread it again. Then put it down for a few weeks and just observe people, look at how cities are laid out, how money is used, how animals move and play, at nature. Then find another work on statecraft or strategy.

Follow through again, but every now and then return back to Chanakya. He produced one of the five most important works ever written in my opinion. When I teach people how to study a map, or fugure out how to track hostages across national borders, or explain why escaped prisoners travel so far when they are on the run, or why Cleopatra wanted to escape to the Temple of Artemis, or explaining The Four Color Theory, or explaining Cellular Automata, I use Chanakya.

@Dignaga
I am interested in YOU, not Chanakya. Do you understand what I am saying? I am having this conversation with you.

I am NOT curious about the things you referenced (i.e. Chanakya, etc) but absolutely fascinated by what you learned (i.e. your conclusions, opinions, etc). Do you understand the difference?

@sree251 I am Chanakya. I am Sun Tzu. I am Aristotle. I am a few hundred others.

@Dignaga
Yes, you are all that. The study of philosophical works does require an intense focus. It's like getting into the being of the composer of a musical score as you sing it. You become the music.

So, Chanakya, tell me about one strategy of yours.

@sree251 I can make something that is one, two, by crossing my eyes. I can also cause one object to teleport positions by focusing on it, and closing my one eye, and then opening it while closing the other. In this, I am the master of phenomenology and fate.

Strategy is non-linguistic. This doesn't mean right henispheric dominance, just that it is non-linguistic.

You can say strategy, but do you mean Stratagemata, or do you mean Doctrine, or do you mean an Algorithm, or do you mean planning off a map geometrically, or do you mean a paradoxial koan used in yogic realization?

All that and more could mean strategy. My user name, Onasander was a Platonic Philosopher who wrote a treatise that mixes the concepts of generalship with topography, perception and neurological states of mind. But if I isolated any given "strategy" of his, some would argue it isn't a strategic concept. It is the system as a whole that counts. Everything part and parcel to the other, that builds a system greater than the evaluation of worth of any given individual part seperately appraised. Hence the impossibility of pointing to any one concept of his as something of great value. It is the totality that matters.

@Dignaga
Perception is indeed reality. Fate implies predestiny.

Each person's destiny was thought of as a thread spun, measured, and cut by the three Fates, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos.

What is your prognosis of your fate?

@sree251 Fate predates them as a concept. It is Egyptian in origin. Sometimes it was Shai, in a court of judgement like the pagan semetic Satan, sometimes it was one of the many weaving goddess like Isis (up until Anat arrived).

The concept of power PWR likewise is a pagan persian cult from anatolia based around small group boar hunting, that have charioteers practice in moving with their supportive infantry in tracking down prey (one chariot per ten men is the basic ratio).

Both concepts require myths, and imaginations, and evaluation, but most importantly, they were processed through specific modes of thought, oftentimes used today by moderns but not in exactly the same way.

Did the charioteer who invented the cult of power originate the thought? Was he doing anything particularly new, or was he utilizing aspects of mind already long established in men for hundreds of thousands of years previously? Could we expect to see in a fMFI scan of a pack of neolithic hunters chasing a mammoth pretty much the same thing, at least pretty close?

Could we not expect the egyptians and their looms, programming a result to achieve a pattern and image in cloth, to use near identicle patterns as a neolithic stone worker fashioning a spear head out of rocks, using hand motions, fashioning a image, producing a end product? Was is much different in essence from what Bill Gates did in his garage building computers?

Don't assume ideas come from myths, or that every mythological persona is a complete personality. But likewise, don't ignore the fantasies of a ignorant schizophrenic, however outrageous- they are still human and speak alot of truth about human nature.

@Dignaga
Great post, Onasander. You do justice to your namesake. Your thought pattern is neither linear nor lateral; and yet, I can see in it the intricate lattice of a spider's web.

We need to talk more. Your pattern of thought is as befuddling to experts in western medicine as oriental medical theory.

@sree251 I've studied a number of medical systems, ancient, medieval and near modern. They each have differing standards on diagnostic logic, but each does absurd and ghastly things in terms of morality and reason. But doctors are needed.