I Believe In Social Justice

"Let me ask you this: Do you think the people "Sjw's and Liberals" (if you will) who whine and cry about everything look stupid? if not, how do those who rant about the ones that complain about everything look stupid?"

It depends on what you're calling 'whining and crying."

"As for the offended thing.. i have no idea what you mean by calling it a tactic... as you cant compare tactics to calling someone "offended" they aren't even remotely related...

Ranting about someone who is offended doesn't dismiss anything... so i'm not sure how that popped into your head.

Ranting and being Offended are two entirely different things... one can rant without being offended and while being offended yes, but that itself depends on the person and the general topic.. (as do many things, alongside liberals, Sjw's, and pretty much anything really.)"

Specifically, when someone says something like "oh you're just offended," (usually in suspicious absence of any substantial argument on their part.) I'm referring specifically to instances where it's used to dismiss a valid argument or concern. It's really subtle gaslighting- making it look like the person is just 'overreacting' or 'upset over nothing' in an attempt to undermine them and gain the upper hand. Usually it's used by people who are visibly offended themselves (and usually they're assuming I'm offended when I'm nothing of the sort.) Offense is a natural and very valid thing- that's exactly my argument. It's not a reason to dismiss someone's experiences or opinions or concerns.

"I like how you just automatically take the side of everyone who says something bad has happened to them or someone said something... just because they said it... don't get me wrong, i'm not calling you stupid.. but you should probably take the time to actually check for yourself to see if what someone says is true before you decide to hop on a bandwagon with them..."

You have zero reason to assume I do that, so why are you? I'm constantly learning and corroborating and fact-checking. I do that all the time.

"I can understand the need and want to help others... but you don't need to throw yourself at people to help.. if they need help they'll let you know, or you'll know they need help"

I don't know why you're assuming I throw myself at people without knowing whether they need help. I work for the betterment of people who have been actively, loudly asking for help and equality for decades, hundreds of years. I know they need help. I know they need activists. I'm hardly throwing myself at anyone or anything.

"people can both be an actual "SJW" and a "Decent" person at the same time"

You're still missing my point. There are people respond to me, or others being decent people by (contemptuously, dismissively, angrily) calling me or them an 'sjw.' I know a lot of people who are unable to see the actions and words of a decent person without slandering them and calling them names and trying to undermine and dismiss and invalidate them in any way possible. Their best attack is a string of slurs and names and distraction tactics.

Firstly... Holy... Crap.... you've gained respect from me... you actually replied in a nice way.. and you took the time to not only read everything i said... but use what i said in a direct response... that is a first, and yes i'm being serious. (though it's a bit confusing as i had to re read something once to make sure whether or not it was what i said or something you said..)


True... but it does seem that a lot of people who are upset over something are upset over something that isn't a big deal...

"But nice job minimizing the experiences of millions of people because you can't handle being called out." That was what i was referring to, when i said "i like how you just automatically take sides" i misunderstood what you meant, that's all.

I didn't mean anything by it, i was just saying that most people who try to help others usually help when help isn't needed or wanted... not saying you're like that, though... i suppose i should have been a bit more specific, my bad xD

While i may not understand entirely what you're saying, i do understand the general message, however anyone who feels the need to throw useless insults in every direction should not be taken seriously under circumstances...

As for people who are "offended" or "hurt" by words... those people as a whole i don't understand... how does one actually get hurt by someone calling you something? the phrase "sticks ans stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" was made for a reason... Unless whatever it is they're calling you is true... then why be upset? even if it is true... i can see why you'd be upset... but i'm still confused as to why you make a big deal about it.. as for the ones who say words are "inappropriate" "foul" or "rude" must be idiots. Most if not all words are only what you make of them. a word isn't anything by default. i wish the same thing could be said for actions, but sadly it can't, and never will be.

I won't drag on the conversation about the offended part.. as I've never been offended (and most likely never will be) i'm not one to really talk on that matter... However, those who say they are offended by a flag, or owning a gun, or having this or that, need to grow up... and yes a i know, it's slightly wandering off topic, but i'd thought i'd throw that out there...

As for you personally... i think i'm starting to respect you, you actually speak with a defined cause and not some made up Bull crap. and not only is it defined but it seems sincere, which is quite hard to find among people, just saying.

@SterbenReyne: Thank you. I appreciate talking with you.

"sticks ans stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" may be true for some people, but it's not true for everyone.

To give a specific example- I know a girl who is queer, obese largely due to the fact she is disabled from a non-necessary medication a guardian nevertheless forced her to take out of vanity. She was on accutane and developed a disorder that I can't remember the name of but it's basically an excess of CSF in her cranium and it's caused all sorts of problems. She's spent ages in the hospital, had a VF tube put in, she was going blind, she had to get 2 spinal taps a week for a while... lots of stuff.) She was sexually abused as a child and told by her church leaders that it was partially her fault. She was verbally, psychologically, and physically abused by another guardian after that, and verbally and psychologically abused by another guardian after that one. She tried to commit suicide and was excommunicated. She may have been raped in college (she was drugged by a guy and can't remember what happened.) She has been harassed (both of us actually, by the same guy.) She has depression, psychosis, ptsd, and maybe some other things.

She has spent her whole life being told in one way or another that she doesn't matter.

Every time someone makes a rape joke, they're telling her that her years of sexual abuse don't matter. Every time someone objectifies her body without her consent, they're telling her they don't care about her as a person. Her family is homophobic and she can't tell them she's queer. Her father expects her to get married and bear him grandchildren and has said she's not allowed to have her own opinions- she essentially must echo the opinions of her future husband. People make fun of her for her obesity, which they shouldn't do anyway but is extra terrible because her ability to exercise is severely limited, as is the range of things she can eat (and some of her medications increase appetite and slow metabolism.) Every time someone makes fun of her body or her using the elevator to get to her room on the 3rd floor, they're telling her that her health, her personhood and bodily autonomy and the reasons which may or may not contribute to her obesity don't matter. They don't know she's not taking the elevator because she's fat, but because if she walks up those stairs she may vomit or pass out, and she doesn't have the energy anyway. Every time someone tells a depressed person to 'just be happy,' or uses 'psycho' as a slur or to describe someone bad, they're telling her that her struggles with mental health don't matter. Every time someone says something sexist, they're telling her that her identity as a woman doesn't matter. Every time someone says something homophobic, they're telling her that her love is bad or dirty or not real. Every time someone makes light of abuse, they're telling her that her childhood tortures don't matter.

Even doctors. Doctors treat women's pain with less concern, mental health patients with less credibility, and obese people as though every problem they have is due to their weight. (Obviously not every doctor- but enough doctors that it's a major problem.)

Imagine being told your entire life, constantly, that you don't matter. That you're bad. Imagine your life and bodily safety being in increased danger every moment (because as a female, obese, disabled, queer, rape and abuse survivor, hers is).

Imagine trying to talk about it, finally carving out a space for yourself where you can begin to heal and feel safe and supported- and having someone waltz up to you, or comment on something very vulnerable and personal you have shared, or harassing someone who has gone through the things that you have, and tell you that you don't matter. That you're upset over nothing. That these problems aren't real.

Remember that casual manifestations of prejudice are reflections of larger mentalities and that those mentalities have real consequences. I've know people beaten and abused and rejected by their parents, families, friends, and peers because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. Casual homophobia reflects and normalizes that mentality. I've known too many women who have been in abusive relationships. Jokes about abuse normalize that. Almost every female or femme person I know has been raped or sexually assaulted, many of them more than once. Jokes about rape, victim-blaming, 'but what was she wearing?' all normalize and excuse that.

We're not upset over nothing. Words hurt, when you hear them every day of your life and you know there is very real violence and very real danger to your safety and your life behind those words.

@NinaSilver: Maybe from your angle, which wasn't in the right direction to begin with.

@adshaw: You missed not only my point, but every other applicable point in that my 'angle' is a very lucid and rational one. Tellingly, your response is built on misunderstanding, caricature, and conjecture.

@NinaSilver: Rational... that's not a word I'd ever associate with social justice.

Are you just stalking my posts now? This is the second one.

@Faerylight: I'm inclined to believe this is just you wanting the conversation to stop. Most people don't 180 that quickly. The 'awww' seems in keeping with your tone throughout the exchange thus far.

@NinaSilver: No. I accept that maybe my dislike of SJWs coloured my perception of your post and I allowed my current pissed offedness at everything SWJ to lead me to be rude to you. I really don't like insinuations that people (especially myself) are racist or homophobic or sexist -I do think that's nasty. I assume (again) that given our respective world views we will probably never agree on whether that is nasty -you feeling both certain and justified. Therefore I'm inclined to apologize for lumping you in with what I consider to be a bad lot and being rude -while leaving go things we aren't going to agree on.

For constructive conversations one has to be prepared to have one's mind changed.

It's probably not a good start to one (for which I can only apologize as I have done and you are disinclined to accept as genuine) :-)

@Faerylight: Alright. Thank you.

Specifically, when someone says something like "oh you're just offended," (usually in suspicious absence of any substantial argument on their part.) I'm referring specifically to instances where it's used to dismiss a valid argument or concern. It's really subtle gaslighting- making it look like the person is just 'overreacting' or 'upset over nothing' in an attempt to undermine them and gain the upper hand. Usually it's used by people who are visibly offended themselves (and usually they're assuming I'm offended when I'm nothing of the sort.) Offense is a natural and very valid thing- that's exactly my argument. It's not a reason to dismiss someone's experiences or opinions or concerns.

Yes I agree with you absolutely!

Everything I can, honestly.

Learning, primarily. I came out of a mostly conservative household, so I was a conservative moderate until I was 16 or 17. I'm`19 now, so a lot of that time has been spent unlearning bullshit and learning how to be an activist and ally. I speak a lot, on various platforms. I share resources where I can. I'm going to school for psychology because I'd like to address the prejudices in the field. It's a vital part of infrastructure and health services, with too little funding and too few resources, and it's heavily influenced by stigma, ableism, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and probably more things but those are the big ones. That's something that needs to be addressed because it has real-life consequences for millions of people in multiple spheres.
I try to speak against instances of oppression or discrimination in everyday life.
I donate money and time when I can.
I go to rallies and protests and I'm working on art and writing because those can be powerful vehicles of change. I have some friends who are pretty committed to activism and sometimes we collaborate on those things.
I did some work as a kid, although it wasn't necessarily large or incredibly impactful. I helped bring back my highschool's Gay-Straight Alliance in sophomore and senior year, was co-president senior year. We got our school's prom dress code changed to be gender-neutral, which isn't huge I know, but was important to us. (We found out later that it was actually supposed to be already, but our school specifically had been ignoring it and forcing students to dress based on perceived gender if they wanted to go.)
I don't have a lot of money or social capital right now. Most of what I can do is be a body at protests and rallies, and address issues when I see them in everyday life. I try to share good resources when I find them, and disseminate information, and be part of support networks (I'm part of a group wherein a lot of the members are rape assault or abuse victims as well as marginalized identities, and I've recently been spending time giving help with dealing with gaslighting, boundary-maintaining, abuse situations etc.
I helped a girl out of an abusive household once as a teenager. That's not like I consider it a credit or a point or whatever, but I'd like to do more work like that. She didn't know where to go or who to talk to; he'd been abusing her since she was 16 and she had to drop out of high school, he controlled her finances and her transportation and her social life and her communications. He controlled everything. She didn't know what to do. If I hadn't asked if she was okay, she might still be there. (And that's also not in praise of myself. It just brought home once again how much work we have to do still.)
I've always tried to be there for people who were in danger or struggling. Part of the reason I headed my GSA in high school was because I knew so many kids who needed it. Even if they couldn't attend or be active in it, we needed to have it there. We needed to have it loud and strong and colorful and there, to help them know there was a community of people who loved them and were there for them. I was very very loudly 'out' and visibly so (partially just because of my style and partially deliberately). I was scared, because I was small and dfab and kids got harassed and followed and beaten up for being gay at my school, but I wanted to be loud and proud for the kids who couldn't, because it wasn't safe for them. It was always people like that who inspired me, when I was young and not out. Those people made me feel brave, so I wanted to show that for someone else, even if I was terrified sometimes. (Even administration didn't like us. So many teachers told us they would love to sponsor, but couldn't because they were worried about being fired. Shit was wild.)

I kind of wrote a novel, oops. I meant to just list things but I got into anecdotes.