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I Am Frustrated With Society

The bar has been lowered quite a bit in recent decades. People limit themselves much more tightly in their smaller circles than we used to. I'm old enough to remember when kids (myself included) automatically became friends with every other kid in the neighborhood, because that was just how it was. Having a sense of entitlement is on the rise, and having a sense of responsibility is on the decline.

But at the same time - racism, sexism and homophobia are also on the decline. Gender equality is moving more and more toward being a reality. Sites like SW disconnect us irl be lessening the need for face to face connections, but they also give us an outlet and provide us with something that we obviously value, or we wouldn't be here. Things that were thought of as standard parenting practices a few generations ago are now considered child abuse. Psychology and certain eastern spiritualities are acting as forces for self examination and personal growth that have been nearly non-existent in the west for most of history. A lot of it is just a fad, with people going to therapy or attending Buddhist classes just to make themselves look/feel good, without any intention of growing as a person - but over time, more and more people seem to be using the tools of growth to really step up and become better people. The percentage is still abysmally small, but it's growing.

And I feel like more and more people are unhappy with the way things are going. More and more unhappy voices are speaking up. More and more stupid remakes of old shows and movies are getting made, because the new crap is so dumb. In a way, it's making us deaf to those voices, since we hear them all the time, but at the same time... at least people are speaking up.

It aint great, but I honestly feel like society is rising up at least as much as it's falling down.

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Invisible · 26-30, M

I blame technology for most of our problems and the government/media for the rest of them.

But at the same time - racism, sexism and homophobia are also on the decline.

False. America is far more racially polarized than it was ten or fifteen years ago.

I don't see any particular relevance of eastern philosophies/practices.

And I feel like more and more people are unhappy with the way things are going.

That's because our culture is visibly declining, just like Germany after WWI, the only real difference being that our currency hasn't become worthless (yet?).

Society doesn't go anywhere unless the people take it there or allow it to be taken. Right now, we have a lot of people letting it slip away into impiety, vulgarity, and depravity. Soon, we'll hit a point where everything will become too disgusting for us to sit back any longer. People will begin to cling to the things that are associated with traditional values and standards. Things will reverse a second time as people start to take control of society again.

BlueDiver · 41-45, M

I had a long conversation with a very vehement social justice warrior about whether or not racism was getting better or worse right now, and I challenged her to show me data or evidence that supported that, and she linked me two articles. They talked passionately about racial polarization and racism in general, and how they were major problems - but they didn't have any actual data except for one line. The line was something like "XYZ state is the only state where the percentage of 'some statistic that indicates an increase in racism' has gone up." So the only data she gave me indicated clearly that racism is on the decline in 49 states, at least in that one area. And there was nothing in the articles that suggested that that particular area was an outlier compared to other statistics.

"I don't see any particular relevance of eastern philosophies/practices." - this might just be bias on my part, but having studied psychology and Buddhism quite a bit (many of whos practices are largely the same, especially in terms of more recent schools of psychology like narrative therapy and CBT), I believe that the only way that a person can not see the relevance of them - in terms of moving forward as an individual, a society, or a species - is if that person doesn't understand them at all.

Invisible · 26-30, M

Polls don't always agree with what you personally experience.

I believe that the only way that a person can not see the relevance of them - in terms of moving forward as an individual, a society, or a species - is if that person doesn't understand them at all.

This isn't really an argument/explanation. How are they relevant?

BlueDiver · 41-45, M

I almost don't want to respond to this, because I get the sense that you're more in a place of certainty on these subjects, rather than being in a place of searching or questioning where anything I say will really accomplish anything for either of us. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're at least somewhat looking for the truth, whatever that truth may be, rather than just looking to support your preexisting views at any cost.

Satanic ritual worries went up massively for a number of years a few decades ago, in large part because the validity of repressed memories hadn't been debunked yet. Millions of people were convinced that satanic torture and murder was being done regularly in the US. And yet, not one bit of evidence was ever produced to substantiate those claims.

One of the reasons why I'm so hesitant to even argue with you is because taking something like peoples *worry* about race relations and using it as evidence to say that race relations are getting worse is such an illogical leap that it makes me think that you're almost certainly someone who's willing to twist evidence into a pretzel in order to prove your point.

Personal growth is relevant to moving forward as an individual, society, and species because... honestly, why am I even bothering to argue with you? How can anyone not recognize that personal growth moves things forward? To look inside yourself, either through psychology or eastern practices, and to understand and conquer your inner demons so that you can stop reacting to things based on ego and old patterns, and instead act effectively based on what's actually in front of you - how can anyone not see the relevance in that, in terms of moving forward and healing/improving the world? Yes, arguments can be made that the personal growth is token, or that eastern spiritualities are ineffective at helping people grow - but to not see the relevance in them at all? I don't understand how you can be that blind.

Invisible · 26-30, M

This is my exact sentiment as well, but I'm trying to bring in evidence and logic to support my points (racism) and you just make broad statements filled with assumptions and personal opinion. Let's forget ourselves here and worry about the facts alone.

taking something like peoples *worry* about race relations and using it as evidence to say that race relations are getting worse is such an illogical leap

How is it illogical to think that worry of racism has a direct correlation with racism? Do you think that people are lying or are mislead? Do I need to mention the recent riots in Ferguson, Baltimore, etc? Do you have any evidence to provide that counters the evidence I have provided? How would you quantify racism? Wouldn't you say that public opinion is kind of a key factor?

Personal growth is not something that exists solely in eastern religion, or even religion at all. To change your claim to that is basically admission that your original claim (that eastern religion has been a driving force in western society) can't really be supported by evidence, so I'll just leave it at that unless you'd like to offer something else.

The ad hominem attacks ("why am I even bothering to argue with you?... I don't understand how you can be that blind.") are not an argument and certainly don't make your position look any better, so please drop them. You don't see me behaving like that, regardless of how you may interpret my disagreement with you, and it just provides more to read, obscuring your points.

For someone who has studied psychology, you seem totally unaware of your own projection.

Psychology and certain eastern spiritualities are acting as forces for self examination and personal growth that have been nearly non-existent in the west for most of history.

this might just be bias on my part, but having studied psychology and Buddhism quite a bit...

You identified that bias might be present, and you were so close to seeing what I think may be the reason for you making this case. Do you still think that your claim on eastern religion is more than projection, and if not, could it possibly be backed by evidence?

BlueDiver · 41-45, M

Look, your personality rubs me the wrong way. I don't like you - and I realize that some if not most of that is subjective bias on my part, based on my own past, and that that bias made me react badly to you and not consider your opinions as much as I would have if you were someone else. You're blunt, overly direct, set in your beliefs, condescending of my beliefs, and way to certain for my tastes. You keep talking down to me and wording things like your opinions are clearly and obviously The Truth, and the only way I can do the correct thing is to agree with you... and I admit that much of that is also true of me, especially in terms of my responses to you, which is probably why you bug me so much, and why we're butting heads so much. I think that this is a classic clash of personalities - one where, for me at least, the best thing to do is to agree to disagree, recognize that we don't get along and never will, go to separate rooms of the SW house, and each get on with our lives and do our own things without interfering with the other.

Invisible · 26-30, M

You can't be overly direct. We didn't quite butt heads, I just wanted to have a discussion based on evidence and you just wanted to have a discussion based on opinions. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's not what I'm here for.

BlueDiver · 41-45, M

Oh my fucking god you bug me. Every ounce of your wording suggests that you see every one of your opinions as objective truth that anyone would be a fool to question.

Invisible · 26-30, M

Damn, you whine a lot.