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Okay, so when you think that everything you're doing isn't good enough - that's guilt. But what would you call it when...

...Someone else thinks that everything you're doing isn't good enough?
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SW-User
I call it manipulative, abusive and narcissistic.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
Why manipulative and narcissistic, specifically?
SW-User
Because when a person is never willing to see any good in anything that another person does, no matter how hard they try, it is usually because their own opinion of themselves is so inflated that they can't see anything else. Or, it is because they are using the illusion of never being satisfied to push you into constantly doing more and trying harder, for their own benefit. Either way, it's abusive because they are cutting you down in order to make themselves feel superior or to gain from your efforts.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
I'm asking because my point in asking the question in the first place was that I know that I introjected my dad's view of me "he thinks that nothing I do is ever good enough in these certain large areas" became "I think that nothing I do is ever good enough in these certain large areas." I know that what it became AFTER the introjection is guilt, but I didn't have an easy term for what it was BEFORE the introjection. It was certainly abusive - I get that - and I guess that I get how it was manipulative - he had blinders when he looked at me, shaped in certain way in order to push for his own sick and selfish agenda. When you twist everything in order to push for your agenda, then that's manipulation (especially when it's done indirectly or subtly, which his was) But I still don't completely understand how it was narcissistic, specifically.
SW-User
This is the definition I'm thinking of when I use the word narcissistic: People that have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

So, in my opinion, a person who can never see good in others, can't see it because of the things mentioned above.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
It wasn't that he couldn't see the good in others though - he saw the good in my mom, though that was also based on fulfilling his own sick needs rather than her actually earning it - it was me that he could never see the good in, not after I started building a life independent of him that might take me away from him one day.
SW-User
@BlueDiver: Exactly. They see what they choose to see according to what works best for them.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
Narcissisticness is one of those terms that's almost impossible to look up online. Most people don't get that there are 2 narcissistic spectrums - the pathological one that only monsters are on, and the regular human one that we're all on. So many of the people writing about it are either stuffy psychologists so far removed from reality that their definitions are useless outside of a textbook, or they're people who have had such bad experiences with narcissists that they've lost all perspective, or they're people who ARE narcissists and are trying to twist it so that all of their shit is actually somehow a good thing. It's almost impossible to wade through it enough to put together a clear, concise definition of what it means to be deeply narcissistic without having narcissistic personality disorder (which my dad didn't have). And it's *especially* hard to figure out a good definition of whether or not a particular action or pattern of action is narcissistic.

My dad was passive dependent, among other things - he wanted to be dependent on me, and he tore me down whenever I stepped in any of the directions that might threaten that. That's why I question whether his actions were narcissistic - was it a narcissistic ego that he was protecting, or was it a sick desire for me to be his parent, and to tear me down in the direction that would make that happen? I mean, I KNOW that it was the ladder, the question is, was it also the former?
SW-User
@BlueDiver: My question is, does it matter? It was obviously manipulative and abusive and I'm sure it stemmed from his own hurts and demons. Why does the label matter?
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
Because I'll have an utterly stunted future devoid of love or meaningful human connection if I don't find the answer to the question that's at the heart of my shit with my dad. And since I won't know what the question is until I find it's answer, I need to look at every corner of it, from every angle, in hopes that something will shake loose.
SW-User
@BlueDiver: I think I'll reply to this in PM if that's ok?
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
Of course.