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Do things only exist if humans have proof ?

Poll - Total Votes: 14
Yes of course
No only with proof
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Do things only exist if humans have indispensable proof? This seems to be the backbone of many arguments. Can things exist that humans are completely unaware of ?
this is an ontological and epistemological question. We verify things to make them “real” to us. This doesn’t imply that objects don’t exist if we don’t recognize them.

But we also have a thing called imagination. And since we are creative creatures, and imagination certainly has it place for us to grow, we can also mistakenly use that same imagination and interpret objects grossly wrong without a basis of understanding the true nature of a thing.

This is definitely seen with certain mindsets in the world, who solely use imagination and say the sky is a being or the water has a personality. This is most likely done without understanding the true nature of these things empirically.
If there’s anything history has proven - it’s that the general consensus of ‘truth’ in any generation we have information about - was wrong, at least about some things.

For instance, we learned the three states of matter: gas, liquid, solid.

Only solids aren’t solid, are they?

[quote]Instead, think of electrons like a swarm of bees or birds, where the individual motions are too fast to track, but you still see the shape of the overall swarm.[/quote]

Now they’re debating the accuracy of some of Einstein’s work.

We’re wrong about some of the stuff we scientifically believe now, too.
CharlieZ · 70-79, M
@Mamapolo2016 Yup, it is.
Hard to refute.
What is good if it´s good for you.
@CharlieZ Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. I am in favor of scientists and I am supportive of science (like science cares). It’s the people who advance the idea that any spiritual idea is nonsense because it can’t be proven, when they cannot prove it’s nonsense.

For some, Science has become both God-lite and anti-God.

I don’t mind what people believe - unless they argue theirs is the only possible position for non-crazy people.

I have my own theory that at some point in the future we will find God and Science are inextricably connected.
CharlieZ · 70-79, M
@Mamapolo2016 May be the Science versus Faith debates are fueled at US as mask to political involvement.
Believe me, amongst hundreds of thousands of actual practicioners and researchers within the scientific comunity worldwide, the ones who even give a thought to that debate are so few that are rare exceptions.
They are of all faiths or, others, of no religión, they work fine together and do same work.
No conflicts about amongst them.
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@MalteseFalconPunch Probably more than we do know about.
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Maximusmax · M
@Mamapolo2016 and certainly more things than we have proof of
saintsong · 41-45, F
I still believe in a spirit world even though there’s no proof
CharlieZ · 70-79, M
@saintsong That´s part of the beauty of freedom of thought.
SW-User
Existence doesn't rely on proof but a claim of existence does. You cannot reasonably claim the existence of something with no proof of its existence, either by means of science or sampling. If there is not even a credible and tested theory which supports the existence of something then it's really just fanciful at best.

If we entertain the idea of the existence of that which no evidence supports then we might as well start speaking of unicorns and talking leopards.
Maximusmax · M
@SW-User good point. But whether you believe or not or have proof or not can something exist. Credibility comes into play when people might claim a talking unicorn and no one else claims to have seen it. If millions or even billions claim to have seen it then it gives credibility to its existence even without scientific proof which also has its limits especially when it comes to feelings and the spiritual realm
SW-User
@Maximusmax I disagree on that point. Plenty claim to have seen ghosts and yet the evidence, or complete lack of, suggests that they were entirely mistaken or just straight up lying. Plenty of people believe a whole host of things for which there is zero evidence and it does nothing to increase the credibility of their claims except among themselves and others like them. There has to be a standard of proof if there is ever to be anything approaching objectivity. The number of subscribers to a belief cannot be a standard of proof.
Maximusmax · M
@SW-User but I am not saying it exists because people believe it does just that it lends credibility. However I am asking if something can exist without proof
CharlieZ · 70-79, M
Even in Mathematics and subsequently in Logic (we know it since Godel) there are true statments without not only prove but that, moreover, can´t have once.
And Science, it´s cutting edge is research about what we still do not know or not enough. A never ending goal.
CharlieZ · 70-79, M
@Maximusmax In other words.
Scientists have found fruitful not to mess with Absolutes, First Questions and Ultimate Answers.
May be, just may be, philosophers should have a simmetrical wise parsimony when making assertions about what actualy is the scope of Science and (looking at the results) certainly not their scope.
Maximusmax · M
@CharlieZ very true. Science deals with the physical world and that is its limit
CharlieZ · 70-79, M
@Maximusmax To define something (from latin, to trace it´s limits with what that something is not) is preciselly part of identity.
It´s a limit, but a curious one.
Since it was defined, at the very birth of Science, it gave some "paradoxical" results.
- We become to know better about the material Universe in 400 years than in millenia and millenia of unfruitful specullative though.
- We put inside the scope of scientific research a lot of what for millenia and millenia was thought as the Feud of the First and Ultimate mysteries.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
[quote]Can things exist that humans are completely unaware of ?
[/quote]

Absolutely.
cycleman · 61-69, M
humans don't even exist
Maximusmax · M
@cycleman now that's just silly
cycleman · 61-69, M
@Maximusmax it's just our imagination that we are here.
Maximusmax · M
@cycleman ok back to dreamland for you 😆
Only those things humans are [b]aware[/b] of. All kinds of things we’re unaware of doubtless exist.

 
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