[quote]And it takes 3 paper ones to do the job of one plastic[/quote]
lol horse shit
SW-User
@Pikachu Virgin growth forests and the biome they support are NOT RENEWABLE. Besides, plastics and cellulose can come from plants as well as oil. You do indeed know horse shit.
Virgin growth forests are by no means the only source of wood and you know it. Tree farms are indeed renewable. Argument rejected.
[quote]plastics and cellulose can come from plants as well as oil.[/quote]
And when we're making bio plastics instead of petrolium based plastics then there will be nor problem. But that's not the issue. Argument rejected.
[quote]You do indeed know horse shit.[/quote]
lol then go ahead and explain how it takes three paper straws to do the job of one plastic straw.
SW-User
@Pikachu Paper straws soak liquid and eventually lose usability. Plastic ones don't. AND many paper ones are wrapped in..Plastic. A great many concur with the paper straw's failings and thus reject your "arguement".. Along with me. BTW, Your modern world conveniences would not be if not for your friend oil.
[quote]Paper straws soak liquid and eventually lose usability.[quote][/quote][/quote]
lol a predictable response and a easily refuted:
I agree that paper straws eventually lose stability. Irrelevant. They are sufficient for single use which is what plastic straws are used for anyway. Both are then discarded but one biodegrades and the other remains indefinitely while also getting into our water supply and hurting animal life. Argument rejected.
SW-User
@Pikachu Paper straws often don't even last 1 use.. Therefore, to many people, they are indeed useless. That's why so many are against them. And many plastics in the bioplastic family do indeed biodegrade, like paper does.. There exist right now, plastic straws made of the stuff that biodegrade as well. If paper straws cannot be improved upon, then switch to straws which are comprised of biodegradable plastic, if there is such a major concern about "straw pollution".. And if paper straws ever become as useful as plastic ones, I'll be singing their praises. Right now, having witnessed the failings of paper straws, even the paper ones ironically wrapped in plastic, if I need a straw, either I'll have my own plastic one at the ready or ask for a plastic one as some places still give the choice. That way I'll save the forests, Virgin, Old Growth and Tree farms, all of which are harvested for pulp, cut down on pollution released by paper mills and I'll keep the wildlife happy by protecting their homes while enjoying my drink on the go. refreshingly relevant! Whether or not we can agree. You can have paper. I'll keep the plastic, for now.
[quote]Paper straws often don't even last 1 use.. [/quote]
But they often do. So i guess the question becomes is it more important to you to have a straw that's going to stay in the environment for millennia and hurt animals (because realistically, bio-plasitcs are NOT in widespread use) or one with much less impact which may not last as long.
The ethical choice seems to me to be a clear one.
[quote]If paper straws cannot be improved upon,[/quote]
But they could be. Right off the top of my head: wax.
SW-User
@Pikachu Bioplastics grow in popularity all the time. They'll be in widespread use for many items.
I choose plastic straws over present paper ones. Some people may litter with straws, but wildlife faces far bigger ethical and pollution issues than straws.
When they do actually make paper straws work as well.. Like those nice waxy paper cups, I'm in.
[quote]They'll be in widespread use for many items.[/quote]
And when they ARE and not just "will be" then you can make that argument.
[quote] but wildlife faces far bigger ethical and pollution issues than straws.[/quote]
That is not an argument which strengthens your position. Saying that there are worse problems does nothing to bolster the ethical standing of plastic straws. That is a logical fallacy known as a red herring.
SW-User
Plastic straws for me. They work well. That still remains my point and my choice.
Besides, just for fun, paper isn't quite the saviour you seem to claim. Improperly disposed of plastic OR paper can both harm wildlife when consumed, by choking and internal damage. Paper straws do not biodegrade as rapidly as some believe and can last many months. And in landfills, the EPA has stated paper doesn't degrade much faster than plastics. Paper production emits air pollution, specifically 70 percent more pollution than producing plastic. According to studies, the manufacture of paper emits 80 percent more "greenhouse gases".. And making paper uses trees that instead could be absorbing carbon dioxide. And many trees harvested for pulp are not from renewable "tree-farm"sources, but instead from natural forests, causing detrimental effects to the environment and wildlife which inhabit it. The paper making process also results in 50 times more water pollutants than making plastic. Even though if petroleum goes into making plastic, making paper consumes four times as much energy as making plastic. Paper production uses three times the amount of water it takes to make plastic. It takes approximately 91 percent more energy to recycle a pound of paper than a pound of plastic. Paper may well be more "ethically" and environmentally sound in some ways, but is actually far worse in others.
As far as straws go. Its plastic for me. Keep your paper straws.. And your own herrings.
[quote] They work well. That still remains my point [/quote]
lol yes, i know. The only point you've made is that you want to use them.
Pointing out that paper has it's own problems does not diminish the problems caused by plastic. It does not change the fact that plastics will and do remain in the environment indefinitely.
As you say, you've made your choice. Just don't pretend it's the ethical one.
SW-User
@Pikachu Its as ethical as paper. Pick your environmental impact and enjoy.
