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CheekyBadger · M
Unfortunately unions don't always have their members interests at heart. Here in UK a few years back one of the big unions was found to have actively supported the employer (a city council) against female members who had been underpaid. The union's view was that the men should be paid more than the women because they were men and they worked to find ways to enable the men to get more pay than the women. When the women found out they were being discriminated against they went to their union expecting to be supported but instead were targeted by that union and had to take legal action against the council independently - which they won.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@CheekyBadger Unions are like any democratic organization, and particularly really large ones can get taken over by interests who are just about maintaining their own power. I've been a union activist for a very long time and there are some -garbage- unions.
Unions as a concept are essential. Big business unions are not a good execution of that concept because it becomes about the power of the union bosses, not the power of the workers.
Unions as a concept are essential. Big business unions are not a good execution of that concept because it becomes about the power of the union bosses, not the power of the workers.
CheekyBadger · M
@CountScrofula I believe unions are essential in a free market too - I mean the sort of unions that are formed by workers themselves rather than those driving a political ideaology. The free market requires freedom on both directions to work properly - competition is not just at the point of sale but also through the entire supply chain. Corporations need to compete with each other to not only sell products but to recruit and retain the resources that they need to sell those products/services. Workers also need to determine what is acceptable to them and unions are one way in which they can achieve this - if a particular union doesn't represent them they should be free to find one that does (or to form their own). Where there is external control of unions this is a threat to competition just the same way as where there is external control on who is allowed to operate in particular markets (e.g. where established companies use politicians to restrict entry to new competitors)
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@CheekyBadger My take is a little simpler. If 100 people work for 1 person, and that 1 person has all the money and power, the 100 people should bargain collectively to avoid being exploited.
CheekyBadger · M
@CountScrofula That assumes that the workers have no freedom to take their skills elsewhere - in a truly free market there are fewer barriers to entry and nothing to stop workers from either moving to an employer who will pay more or from forming their own business to compete with that employer. Where we get issues is when the free market isn't actully free and where constraints are placed on the workers or monopolies are created and restrictions put in place to prevent competition.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@CheekyBadger I could argue from Proudhon's perspective that the free market cannot be free unless the enterprises are worker owned.