Labor Union?

@Gloomy Oh yes, and they make sure no sub-humans will get paid jobs. In South Africa during the days of the Apartheid system, for example. The fought against any black underling trying to get a job. Because, wouldn't that mean white workers will be paid less?

@helenS yeah that’s a pathetic attempt on smearing unions that have fought for and secured workers rights internationally.

@Gloomy What I said is a historical truth, nothing less and nothing more. If you think workers are a progressive and emancipatory force you are totally wrong. White workers were Trump's most important support base.

@helenS [quote]In the late 1980s, the union movement played a significant role in bringing about the end of apartheid. They adopted a stronger political role in fighting against apartheid, but also called for countrywide stay aways which showed that the unions had the power to cripple the economy. However, union activity took place amid increasingly harsh state action. The many restrictions placed on the trade unions led to widespread feeling of demoralisation.


COSATU believed that it was important to restore faith in the union movement. It held a special conference in May 1988 to evaluate its strengths and weaknesses and to strengthen its structures further. A leadership code was established and discussed. The delegates also called for a three-day stay away to protest the Labour Relations Bill. The success of this stay away did much to revive the spirit of the trade union movement.

Further conferences discussed the political role of COSATU and its decision to join in a broad anti-apartheid alliance with the UDF and other anti-apartheid organisations. At a Workers Summit in 1989, COSATU, NACTU and independent unions agreed to work for greater unity among the working class and to take joint action against the Labour

Relations Act. COSATU also believed that it was important to provide education for its members. It appointed education officers who held workshops dealing with the role of trade unions, but also on wider issues such as HIV-AIDS.

During the 1980s, the trade union movement received widespread support from the international community. The various anti-apartheid movements overseas pledged solidarity with the union movement and held their own protests in support. Also, trade union organisations in various countries supported the growing labour movement by holding solidarity protests and by forcing some of their companies to withdraw from South Africa or place pressure on their South African branches to improve wages and working conditions. This support also boosted the morale of the labour movement.[/quote]
https://www.saha.org.za/workers/strengthening_global_support.htm

Also there were black workers unions too.

@Gloomy Ah oh, hey, since the late 1990s! Apartheid was the core of the political system in South Africa since the mid-17th century.

@helenS [quote]White workers were Trump's most important support base.[/quote]

US education system and a lack of a real left wing pro worker alternative were to blame for that

@Gloomy No the [u]white workers[/u] are to blame for that! 🤬

@helenS There were always unions from and for people of color that were surpressed.
Attacking unions like this that made the 8 hour work day possible for example is shitty on a whole new level and is extremly disingenous

@helenS You are so ignorant

@Gloomy I see myself as a part of an eternal emancipatory left, and white workers who vote for Trump are my [u]enemies[/u], I don't see those f*cking *ssholes as victims. (I see [u]you[/u] as a member of the emancipatory left too, by the way. You just don't see that the proletariat is not, and has never been, a part of it)

@helenS White workers in the US are victims and subjects to their material conditions.
That's the left wing position.

@helenS What on earth are you talking about?

Trade unions were one of the most important movements in ending apartheid and empowering black workers. You can look this up in like, two seconds on google.

@Gloomy and a single worker is powerless against a corporation....I've seen how much more merciful a large corporation can be when there isn't a formidable union on the other side.

@originnone And I’ve seen the exact opposite. I’ve worked in both union and non-union jobs and people basically crushed by large corporations where there was no union to stop them. One factor in many blacks joining the Democratic Party after the Civil Rights movement was their support of working people and labor unions. Once we were also considered "people" we could also benefit from gains made by labor on behalf of workers.

@bijouxbroussard ugh....I reread my post....I meant the exact opposite of what I posted.....I meant "is" not "isn't"

@helenS this is patently false. Leftist trade unions and the South African Communist Party were against the Apartheid government from inception. COSATU and the SACP were part of Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation) who actively fought militarily against the Apartheid government.

Source: South African born and raised.

@helenS [quote]I see myself as a part of an eternal emancipatory left[/quote]

I mean you are liberal in the broadest seen of the word.

Sure, some white working-class people voted for Trump but all of the stats say that Republican voters are more affluent than Democrats. Trumpism is largely a movement of middle-class white voters, whatever the media framing by themselves and others.

There is an argument that the middle-class liberal left has alienated part of its working-class base which contributed to a section of people turning to the radical right. But:

1) A huge part of that is a result of the 'third way' promoted by Schroder, Clinton and Blair, which took the unionised working class for granted whilst chasing the affluent middle classes. Aesthetically (which does matter) it catered to the middle class and the adoption of neoliberalism was against the interests of the working class. "If you don't vote for a woke Tory Party, same on you. Get with the 21st century."
2) The idea that trade unionism is a bastion of working-class reaction is untrue on multiple levels. Union activists tend to be on the left across the board. In any case, a genuine 'progressive' strategy. needs to unite working-class people with left intellectuals around a common goal. A position which states that working-class people are irredeemable reactionary is counterproductive to this as well as being just false.

@Burnley123 An NBC poll (February 21, 2021) reported that the news is not good for labor progressives: [i]The GOP is rapidly becoming the blue-collar party. In the last decade, the percentage of blue-collar voters who call themselves Republicans has grown by 12 points. At the same time, the number in that group identifying as Democrats has declined by 8 points.
Most of the GOP's blue-collar growth took place during the presidency of Donald Trump.[/i]
(source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/gop-rapidly-becoming-blue-collar-party-here-s-what-means-n1258468)
Polls, of course, will only get you so far. Political polling can be avoided by examining the actual election results, precinct by precinct, and then linking those precincts to the census tracts that contain those precincts. Result for Pennsylvania: [i]The Pennsylvania white working class in general shows significant Trump support.[/i]
(Source: https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/06/08/white-working-class-turning-right)

Political analysts point to the white working class (WWC) as the voting bloc that tipped the 2016 Presidential Election in Donald Trump’s favor. Trump was able to appeal to their values such as straight talk, masculinity, and economic independence, in a way that experienced politicians didn’t consider. Class politics drove the 2016 election, and it was cluelessness about the needs of the WWC that drove Trump’s victory. (For a detailed analysis, see https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class?referral=00134)

Voting for Trump [b]is[/b] a white worker's class struggle. Yes it's traumatizing but we have to face the sad facts instead of believing some reassuring lies.

@helenS Trump has made it [b]race[/b] politics. The GOP has been the party of big business and the wealthy, until recently. Trump is still wealthy but the key has been his appeal to "white" workers, whom he’s convinced that groups like undocumented immigrants are trying to steal their jobs (hint: these whites are [b]not[/b] scrubbing anyone’s floors nor working in any fields. They’d go on welfare first.) But they’re voting against their own best interests because GOP politicians like Trump have them convinced that the other party will also help the people they don’t like.

@helenS [quote]Voting for Trump is a white worker's class struggle.[/quote]

White workers do not engage in class struggle in the US which is the problem. They have been divided by hatred for people worse off than them instead of uniting against the real threat against them.
Alienating them further and declaring them the enemy doesn't work. Are many of them uneducated and ignorant idiots? Yes they are
Is it solely their fault? No

@helenS There is nothing that I have said that is a lie and you've completely missed my point.

Does a large section of WWC people vote for Trump? Yes and that is not contentious or in need of statistics to prove. I even mentioned in my post that some working class people have gone to the radical right because of disillusionment with third-way liberalism.

However, what I said about Republican voters being more affluent is also true and the biggest part of Trump's voting block is middle class.

Unionised workers (and union activists on particular) are generally further to the left than other members of their class.

Nothing that I said was in any way wrong.