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Graylight · 51-55, F
Except that statistically, you're 8 times more likely to be shot with your own handgun then you are to use it on someone else.
Except that in real world testing, the majority of women weren't even able to remove a handgun in time from their bags in order to stop a bad guy.
Except that accidental shootings involving both adults and children occur every single day in the US.
Except that there are plenty of non-lethal and very effective alternatives for self-defense, and most of us will never need such things.
You want a gun for self-defense? Great, it's the law of the land and has been supported by scotus. Just know it's not nearly as effective as most people think it is.
Except that in real world testing, the majority of women weren't even able to remove a handgun in time from their bags in order to stop a bad guy.
Except that accidental shootings involving both adults and children occur every single day in the US.
Except that there are plenty of non-lethal and very effective alternatives for self-defense, and most of us will never need such things.
You want a gun for self-defense? Great, it's the law of the land and has been supported by scotus. Just know it's not nearly as effective as most people think it is.
@Graylight you're an idiot. Please spout some more of your bullshit statistics
@Graylight wow. Cute stupid reply.
@Graylight do you own a firearm?
@Graylight oh and try reading my reply to someone else on this post before you judge me on something you obviously know nothing about
Graylight · 51-55, F
@Somebunny21 I do own a firearm. Wasn't my choice, but it's in my home.
I'd like to say I have all the time to research users with whom I interact and thereby gain a better perspective. Please don't think that doesn't make me open for sane debate and discussion.
I'd like to say I have all the time to research users with whom I interact and thereby gain a better perspective. Please don't think that doesn't make me open for sane debate and discussion.
@Graylight ok cool. My apologies for assuming.
You may want to check all your stats because some of them have been debunked.
Yes accidental shootings happen and they are tragic and sad. That is something I am sure we will both agree on.
As far as 8 times more likely being shot with your own weapon, that depends on what study you read. I've seen one that was 5 times and one that said 17 times. Personally I think it's ow the data is correlated.
As far as the real world testing you mentioned is correct on bags as you put it BUT doesn't take into account holsters and also the level of individual training.
As far as non lethal there are alternatives but I personally know the fucker that broke into my house about three weeks ago ran when he heard me chamber a round and I pointed it at his head.
I guess this is an area we will have to agree to disagree on.
I am curious why you have a firearm in your home you don't want
You may want to check all your stats because some of them have been debunked.
Yes accidental shootings happen and they are tragic and sad. That is something I am sure we will both agree on.
As far as 8 times more likely being shot with your own weapon, that depends on what study you read. I've seen one that was 5 times and one that said 17 times. Personally I think it's ow the data is correlated.
As far as the real world testing you mentioned is correct on bags as you put it BUT doesn't take into account holsters and also the level of individual training.
As far as non lethal there are alternatives but I personally know the fucker that broke into my house about three weeks ago ran when he heard me chamber a round and I pointed it at his head.
I guess this is an area we will have to agree to disagree on.
I am curious why you have a firearm in your home you don't want
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Graylight · 51-55, F
@Somebunny21 Let's assume you're correct on stats. You're still [i]5 times[/i] more likely to be killed with your own weapon.
Let's say women carry guns in holsters or a bag with a specific firearm compartment. Still, they won't be able to draw quickly, still the accuracy of a handgun is spotty at best. In simulated live exercise, most law enforcement officers aren't able to hit a target within several shots. Individual training, unless it's at the minimum weekly and creates muscle memory and persistent reflexes, is fairly useless. I can parachute out a plane a couple of times - it doesn't make me an expert on flying.
As for intruders...the majority of burglars don't carry weapons and avoid detection at all cost. Non-lethal defenses consists of sprays, CO2-propelled projectiles, air guns, tasers, a phone, baseball bats, knives, self-defense, pets, concussion devices...the list goes on, and they're all available to the public. Personally, my TV isn't as valuable as a human life.
Don't get me wrong - I love firearms. I'm well trained to use them. But I understand the dangers of owning one. I didn't purchase it, but do stipulate it stays a safe distance and sits without bullets and with a safety.
@strangerthanfiction Having a gun deters nothing. That's been researched for decades.
You can shoot yourself and others even when properly trained. Look into law enforcement and FBI accidents, "responsible" gun owners who've shot their children, their family members, strangers, themselves. Accidental shootings are a major cause of death in this country and they're not all committed by first-time users.
If a gun isn't loaded and the safety is on, it's not going to shoot anyone, so why own it? And if I her one more "responsible, card-carrying NRA member" talk about how safety locks are unnecessary, dangerous, should be removed...
Let's say women carry guns in holsters or a bag with a specific firearm compartment. Still, they won't be able to draw quickly, still the accuracy of a handgun is spotty at best. In simulated live exercise, most law enforcement officers aren't able to hit a target within several shots. Individual training, unless it's at the minimum weekly and creates muscle memory and persistent reflexes, is fairly useless. I can parachute out a plane a couple of times - it doesn't make me an expert on flying.
As for intruders...the majority of burglars don't carry weapons and avoid detection at all cost. Non-lethal defenses consists of sprays, CO2-propelled projectiles, air guns, tasers, a phone, baseball bats, knives, self-defense, pets, concussion devices...the list goes on, and they're all available to the public. Personally, my TV isn't as valuable as a human life.
Don't get me wrong - I love firearms. I'm well trained to use them. But I understand the dangers of owning one. I didn't purchase it, but do stipulate it stays a safe distance and sits without bullets and with a safety.
@strangerthanfiction Having a gun deters nothing. That's been researched for decades.
You can shoot yourself and others even when properly trained. Look into law enforcement and FBI accidents, "responsible" gun owners who've shot their children, their family members, strangers, themselves. Accidental shootings are a major cause of death in this country and they're not all committed by first-time users.
If a gun isn't loaded and the safety is on, it's not going to shoot anyone, so why own it? And if I her one more "responsible, card-carrying NRA member" talk about how safety locks are unnecessary, dangerous, should be removed...
HerKing · 61-69, M
@Somebunny21 [quote]Please spout some more of your bullshit statistics[/quote]
This happens everytime. You don't like it so you say it's bullshit. It isn't bullshit. Look yourself...I'd also add far more adults and other children are shot by toddlers than terrorists. Fact.
This happens everytime. You don't like it so you say it's bullshit. It isn't bullshit. Look yourself...I'd also add far more adults and other children are shot by toddlers than terrorists. Fact.
HerKing · 61-69, M
@strangerthanfiction [quote]except it deters crime against you
Except you won't shoot yourself if you know how to use and carry
Except that when the gun isn't loaded and or safety is on you won't shoot yourself[/quote]
Only the last of those is true. We seem to have the mantra that good guys with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun. Statistically that is unproven speculation. I was taught to shoot by the military, by very well trained firearms instructors. If I was in a situation where I knew I was going to discharge rounds on someone I have the advantage straight away. Even if I have a second's advantage, I have the advantage. I'm alert, focused, my breathing is controlled. I'm ready.
My target is thinking about what to eat, where to go after work, what kind of wine shall they buy. Anything but the possibility they'll have to look up, take in what is happening, stop the instinct to panic, find a weapon....All in the time it takes me to squeeze the trigger.
Then there's the crowd scenario...This one makes me shake my head. Ten people in a crowd, you hear two rounds, of the ten, six are carrying side arms. In five seconds you see six handguns in six hands...Who fired the two rounds? Was it an ND? Then another shot, someone falls. Was that accidental? Deliberate? How do you know? Sure? Who fired it, who fired the first two...All the above happens in less than fifteen seconds.. Who do you shoot?
The police turn up; Who is the bad guy? You? Him? Her? Sure? Sure you're sure?
Except you won't shoot yourself if you know how to use and carry
Except that when the gun isn't loaded and or safety is on you won't shoot yourself[/quote]
Only the last of those is true. We seem to have the mantra that good guys with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun. Statistically that is unproven speculation. I was taught to shoot by the military, by very well trained firearms instructors. If I was in a situation where I knew I was going to discharge rounds on someone I have the advantage straight away. Even if I have a second's advantage, I have the advantage. I'm alert, focused, my breathing is controlled. I'm ready.
My target is thinking about what to eat, where to go after work, what kind of wine shall they buy. Anything but the possibility they'll have to look up, take in what is happening, stop the instinct to panic, find a weapon....All in the time it takes me to squeeze the trigger.
Then there's the crowd scenario...This one makes me shake my head. Ten people in a crowd, you hear two rounds, of the ten, six are carrying side arms. In five seconds you see six handguns in six hands...Who fired the two rounds? Was it an ND? Then another shot, someone falls. Was that accidental? Deliberate? How do you know? Sure? Who fired it, who fired the first two...All the above happens in less than fifteen seconds.. Who do you shoot?
The police turn up; Who is the bad guy? You? Him? Her? Sure? Sure you're sure?
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HerKing · 61-69, M
@strangerthanfiction [quote]they are all true. If the gun isnt loaded and or the safety is on you aren't going to get hurt.[/quote]
what I said.
[quote]Only the last of those is true.[/quote]
what I said.
[quote]Only the last of those is true.[/quote]
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HerKing · 61-69, M
@strangerthanfiction [quote]except it deters crime against you
Except you won't shoot yourself if you know how to use and carry[/quote]
Aren't. I've seen firearms instructors with ND wounds. Not severe, but they have them. It doesn't deter crime...If they did police wouldn't get shot at. And soldiers wouldn't when they are in a hostage situation.
Except you won't shoot yourself if you know how to use and carry[/quote]
Aren't. I've seen firearms instructors with ND wounds. Not severe, but they have them. It doesn't deter crime...If they did police wouldn't get shot at. And soldiers wouldn't when they are in a hostage situation.
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HerKing · 61-69, M
@strangerthanfiction You said it deters crime...clearly it doesn't. Crims know cops carry guns, does it stop them wanting to be crims? Obviously not.
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