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StrictLoving · 56-60, M
@MasterLee: prove that you do exist!
StrictLoving · 56-60, M
@MasterLee: precisely. but do you recall what Rene Descartes concluded next?
Hanging2 · 51-55, M
@MasterLee: How do you know that you are thinking? Anyway argument about semantics are interesting but are as useful as tits on a bull.
StrictLoving · 56-60, M
Yeah, I didn't think y'all actually knew what you were talking about.
Descartes is often misquoted as "I think therefore I am."
He was actually trying to doubt his own existence, which he could do, but could not doubt that he was doubting. That somewhere there was a thing that was in the act of doubting, and that that thing was him. Realizing that the doubting thing must exist in order to doubt, he reasoned, "I doubt, therefore I am."
"je pense, donc je suis."
Having concluded this, he immediately found satisfaction in it, and concluded that "to know is better than to doubt".
He could not conceive how he could have known this by himself, so he concluded there was a Creator, and that the Creator bestowed this knowledge upon him.
He then reasoned that the Creator was a benevolent one and would not lie. Therefore the Bible must be true, etc.
He pretty much went from "I think therefore I am." [sic] to totally justifying 17th century French life in about five lines.
So ... keep going! You are not far from finding God!
Descartes is often misquoted as "I think therefore I am."
He was actually trying to doubt his own existence, which he could do, but could not doubt that he was doubting. That somewhere there was a thing that was in the act of doubting, and that that thing was him. Realizing that the doubting thing must exist in order to doubt, he reasoned, "I doubt, therefore I am."
"je pense, donc je suis."
Having concluded this, he immediately found satisfaction in it, and concluded that "to know is better than to doubt".
He could not conceive how he could have known this by himself, so he concluded there was a Creator, and that the Creator bestowed this knowledge upon him.
He then reasoned that the Creator was a benevolent one and would not lie. Therefore the Bible must be true, etc.
He pretty much went from "I think therefore I am." [sic] to totally justifying 17th century French life in about five lines.
So ... keep going! You are not far from finding God!
MasterLee · 56-60, M
@StrictLoving: so he 'tried to prove his nonexistence' blah blah god exists is your statement? Good crack there.
StrictLoving · 56-60, M
@MasterLee: well, it's an interesting "rest of the story" that most people don't know. "I think therefore I am" is something everyone knows, or thinks they know. They don't realize that God himself was rationalized into existence almost immediately thereafter and the entire Bible justified not long after that.
"I think therefore I am" is held so high, yet I don't think anyone else is swayed by the rest of his reasoning!
It is interesting to note that many arguments for the existence of a Creator hings upon evidence such as the origin of the universe, life, and other things which are observed in the world.
Descartes had no problem at all doubting the existence of all creation! He had dreams that he knew were not real - and if those worlds didn't exist, how could he have any faith in the world he observed while he was "awake"!?
So for him, the entire observable world was "doubtable", but he could not doubt his own doubting, therefore thinking, therefore his own existence. "I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am."
And he could not doubt that knowing was better than doubting, and he could not doubt that this knowledge came, not from within himself, but from a benevolent Creator.
Interesting thought process. He set out to prove that God does not exist and ended up proving to himself that He does.
"I think therefore I am" is held so high, yet I don't think anyone else is swayed by the rest of his reasoning!
It is interesting to note that many arguments for the existence of a Creator hings upon evidence such as the origin of the universe, life, and other things which are observed in the world.
Descartes had no problem at all doubting the existence of all creation! He had dreams that he knew were not real - and if those worlds didn't exist, how could he have any faith in the world he observed while he was "awake"!?
So for him, the entire observable world was "doubtable", but he could not doubt his own doubting, therefore thinking, therefore his own existence. "I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am."
And he could not doubt that knowing was better than doubting, and he could not doubt that this knowledge came, not from within himself, but from a benevolent Creator.
Interesting thought process. He set out to prove that God does not exist and ended up proving to himself that He does.