DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
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DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@SatanBurger My argument about it being taken away still holds though.
That is why socialist don't like it. BTW
That is why socialist don't like it. BTW
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@DeWayfarer I asked AI out of curiosity:
How UBI Solves Your Friend's Dilemma
If you look at UBI through the lens of their nature metaphor, UBI doesn't kill the predator; it just gives the herd running shoes.
It prevents stagnation: UBI is a floor, not a ceiling. Because it's universal, if you get a job, you don't lose your UBI—you just keep making more money. The incentive to work, innovate, and make a better life (the "drive to move the herd") remains entirely intact.
It stops the predators from killing the herd: Right now, workers have very little leverage. If you have a terrible, abusive boss or a predatory wage, you can't quit because you'll starve. UBI gives every individual "get-out-of-the-herd money." It gives workers the power to say "no" to predatory exploitation, forcing corporations to actually offer better wages and conditions to attract people.
The "Expansionism" Question: Where do we go?
When your friend asks "Expansionism as well has other problems. Like where?", they are hitting on a massive truth. For generations, capitalism relied on physical expansion—finding new lands, new resources, and new markets to exploit. Now that the globe is fully mapped and connected, infinite growth on a finite planet is causing severe ecological and economic strain.
This is exactly why thinkers are looking inward instead of outward.
A shift away from traditional capitalism doesn't have to mean moving to Mars or turning into a Soviet state. It means shifting from extractive capitalism (extracting every drop of value from workers and the planet) to stakeholder capitalism or a Social Market Economy, where the success of a nation isn't measured just by GDP, but by the baseline well-being of its citizens.
Your friend is right to want a system that avoids both the cruelty of raw capitalism and the stagnation of pure state control. They just might not realize that the historic figures they quoted were pointing at UBI as the bridge to get there.
How UBI Solves Your Friend's Dilemma
If you look at UBI through the lens of their nature metaphor, UBI doesn't kill the predator; it just gives the herd running shoes.
It prevents stagnation: UBI is a floor, not a ceiling. Because it's universal, if you get a job, you don't lose your UBI—you just keep making more money. The incentive to work, innovate, and make a better life (the "drive to move the herd") remains entirely intact.
It stops the predators from killing the herd: Right now, workers have very little leverage. If you have a terrible, abusive boss or a predatory wage, you can't quit because you'll starve. UBI gives every individual "get-out-of-the-herd money." It gives workers the power to say "no" to predatory exploitation, forcing corporations to actually offer better wages and conditions to attract people.
The "Expansionism" Question: Where do we go?
When your friend asks "Expansionism as well has other problems. Like where?", they are hitting on a massive truth. For generations, capitalism relied on physical expansion—finding new lands, new resources, and new markets to exploit. Now that the globe is fully mapped and connected, infinite growth on a finite planet is causing severe ecological and economic strain.
This is exactly why thinkers are looking inward instead of outward.
A shift away from traditional capitalism doesn't have to mean moving to Mars or turning into a Soviet state. It means shifting from extractive capitalism (extracting every drop of value from workers and the planet) to stakeholder capitalism or a Social Market Economy, where the success of a nation isn't measured just by GDP, but by the baseline well-being of its citizens.
Your friend is right to want a system that avoids both the cruelty of raw capitalism and the stagnation of pure state control. They just might not realize that the historic figures they quoted were pointing at UBI as the bridge to get there.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@SatanBurger It doesn't address it being taken away!
BTW the reason why I want it "basic humanitarian rights" is it can be expanded to other areas. Like abortion rights just to name one or DEI.
It's further removed from socialism. By that very fact.
Socialism wants "social" control. And "social control" can even include religion. Or even racism.
The "bridge" is not necessary with humanitarian rights. You can "fly across the river", with humanitarian rights. Not have to worry about the bridge being destroyed.
BTW the reason why I want it "basic humanitarian rights" is it can be expanded to other areas. Like abortion rights just to name one or DEI.
It's further removed from socialism. By that very fact.
Socialism wants "social" control. And "social control" can even include religion. Or even racism.
The "bridge" is not necessary with humanitarian rights. You can "fly across the river", with humanitarian rights. Not have to worry about the bridge being destroyed.
ABCDEF7 · M
So this scheme will ensure that the people need not to work and contribute for their part in production process of a country even if they are capable of. And are financially empowered for contributing to many unproductive protests.
ABCDEF7 · M
@mysteryespresso Why do they will pay for My work
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@ABCDEF7 ubi doesn't cover entire salaries so it doesn't fund anything as it doesn't work like that