Do you regret not being highly educated?

@RoxClymer Actually, an "actual" degree boosts one's earnings a lot.

More importantly, it stretches/exercises your mind.

Gap year...if someone needs it, he or she should take it. Burn out is not good. Sorry you had to deal with that.

But pushing people who didn't like secondary school to go to college...probably likely to not "take" in many instances.

@SomeMichGuy boosting pay, not according to the graduates that Haven't gotten a job in there field since graduating, in the last 5 years. here in the US, and I am guessing by you using the term 'secondary school' you aren't from the US, I'm guessing you aren't from the US,

pre-Covid it was Absolutely not worth going to college and incuring $40k-$100k worth of dept, because you are going to spend a lifetime paying it back.

notice I said college, I didn't say Continuing education, like Vo-Tec or Licenses/certifications.

I can stretch/exercise my mind by reading any amount of the same material posted to the internet
including watching video on the same content.

remember 50-75yrs ago, and less Imagrants would learn a language by watching TV, because there were no 2nd language classes.

@RoxClymer I think you have made my points for me.

1) I am from the US; you are unfamiliar with the terminology in education.

Pre-school
Primary school is elementary school (through 5th grade)
Secondary school is through the end of high school.

Post-secondary education is that beyond secondary school, and usually focuses on academic education.

If one were not doing well academically in secondary school, but desired to go on to a bachelor's degree, one should be encouraged to build academic achievement, etc., via a junior college. These institutions are made to provide the pretty standard first two years of most four-year undergraduate degree programs, as well as some vocational and technical training.

2) Yes, not getting a job sucks, but labor stats show that bachelor's degrees increase income (as do other higher educational degrees [Master's, etc.]).

3)
[quote]pre-Covid it was Absolutely not worth going to college and incuring $40k-$100k worth of dept, because you are going to spend a lifetime paying it back.[/quote]

This was not my experience, debt-wise or experience-wise. If you are treating college like a job shop, you should opt for vocational training.

4) [quote]I can stretch/exercise my mind by reading any amount of the same material posted to the internet
including watching video on the same content.[/quote]

LOL

A lot of people probably believe this, but YouTube is not the same as having experts in teaching help guide you in learning, let alone experts in a field, let alone other intelligent & engaged students.

People without a solid base can't begin to do this, and challenging oneself with unfamiliar material/areas of study...well, it is harder than you might think.

Online might be a current rage, but, just like developing one's physical self, spiritual self, emotional self, it takes sustained effort. Not a five-minute video.

@SomeMichGuy

1) I have lived in 4 states, thate very greatly, Virginia, Nevada, California and Hawaii, when talking about schooling level 80% of the time people said 'high school' and 'college', not 'Secondary' and 'post-secondary', unless they were going for their masters or doctorate

2) you may have gotten a job in your field of study but I lived in a college city (Reno, UNR) for 20 years, and saw the trend grow over time of the people Not get a job in their field of study and half to uo Back to school or have 20yrs of paying back $60k.

3) you are aware that people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, steven Hawking and Jonathan Ferguson of the Royal Armouries in the Uk have posted videos to YouTube, right?

and that something like 80 days worth of content gets uploaded on to YouTube every single day, right?
granted most of it trash, that still leaves you 10 Days of college-level information, every couple of days
programs with Lucy Worsley and Zahi Hawass

college makes you smart in 1 area
have you ever been to The Smithsonians in DC?
or Niagra Fall?
or the Museum of Modern Art
in Atlanta?
or the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Horbor?
ever been to the Hotel Del Coranado

do you know anything about the Methusela Tree?
do you know anything about Frida Kalho?

college isn't the only place to 'expand your mind' with education

try Going to paces like Gettysburg, PA, or the Jelly Belly factory in California, or the OK Corral in Tombstone, AZ ?

I like to get my info from a diffent type of expert, you may have a degree but that seems to be all you know, because of the staunch way you are defending it.

@RoxClymer

1) It doesn't matter how many states you've lived in. You are unfamiliar with this education terminology, which is not a big deal--every area tends to have its own terminology, and, if one is unfamiliar with the area, it us notba surprise.

If you were serious about what *you* say, you'd realize some of the limits of what you know, and you could easily look up these terms--as part of your self-study--but, [i]instead, you are trying to justify your ignorance.[/i]

Does that strike you as something Dr. Neil "DeGrasse"[[i]sic[/i]] Tyson or Dr. "[S]teven"[[i]sic[/i]] Hawking would do? (Or, if the former were to quote you, in writing, do you think he'd make sure to get *your* name right, to spell it correctly?)

These are not signs of the success of your program.

2) Your experience in Reno is interesting, but it's unclear if what you are saying that wave after wave of students came, and simply tried to get a job in something matching their studies right there...or something else...?

If you had information about which majors were having problems getting work, and whether or not they were good students, that would help, of course.

How did you know these students? Did you attend the institution, yourself?

3)
a) YouTube videos
Seeing a video is fine for learning how to tie a knot, flash a window you install, etc.

However, you simply canNOT compare the

"getting a sense of something" videos

by the persons whom you mention with

the level of knowledge and expertise which is required to truly UNDERSTAND the material and MAKE them.

[i]Listening to a talk, watching a video is NOT the same as understanding it "in depth".
Listening to videos by famous experts is NOT equivalent to BEING an expert, or even understanding the material.[/i]

b) [quote]college makes you smart in 1 area[/quote]

LOL
Colleges have university distribution requirements--requirememts for ALL students seeking a Bachelor's degree--which are intended to give you a more rounded education...IF you take it seriously. Have you taken basic college-level courses in a social science, a natural science, math, art, etc.? Have you had a deep study of major works (writings) of Western culture? Or any?

Many include a language requirement. Have you studied other languages?

Further, some areas require a broader education than you might think. I could go into it, but suffice it to say that engineering has requirements for all engineers which gives them a broader background, even beyond their area; pre-med has students study physics, a lot of chemistry, biology, and courses specific to humans; physics students get a lot of math; etc.

And the sheer multitude of offerings allow a person to at least attempt to be more broadly educated, or even have multiple majors. I studied several areas.

3) Other places to learn
a) Museums

[quote]have you ever been to The Smithsonians in DC? ...
or the Museum of Modern Art
in Atlanta?[/quote]

Yes, I have visited many of the Smithsonian Museums there, and the "castle".

No, I have not been to that MoMA.

I have been to other museums in WDC, Chicago, San Francisco, Houston, Toronto, Vancouver, London (the British Museum, etc.), Paris (the Louvre, etc.), Venice, Florence, Rome, Naples, Athens, Berlin...

Going to museums can be illuminating, but often is an aid in "deep study". What deep study did you do there?

b) Natural attractions
[quote]
or Niagra Fall?
do you know anything about the Methusela Tree?
[/quote]

It's "Niagara" and "Falls", and yes, I've been there several times.

Yes, I am aware of said tree.

Have you been to US National Parks such as Yellowstone, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Grand Tetons, Craters of the Moon, Jewel Cave, Mammoth Cave, Carlsbad Cavern, Glacier, etc., etc., etc.?

Or national lakeshores, seashores, grasslands, forests, preserves?

Or such places in other countries, like Canada, Belize, etc.?

How about mountains, like the Zugspitze? Or the Great Smoky Mountains? The Grand Tetons?

How about features like Old Faithful & the colorful hot springs/pools at Yellowstone?

More to the point, how do you see visiting these places as creating "deep study"?

c) War attractions
[quote]
or the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Horbor?
try Going to paces like Gettysburg, PA
[/quote]

It's "Harbor", and no, not yet.

Gettysburg, yes, very interesting to see the actual topography.

This might add to one's understanding, but do you understand the two turning points of the Civil War? How they were turning points?

I.e., how did this lead to "deep study"?

d) Other destinations
[quote]
ever been to the Hotel Del Coranado
or the Jelly Belly factory in California,
or the OK Corral in Tombstone, AZ
[/quote]

It's "Coronado" and yes.

Never been to the Jelly Belly factory; in what way did this lead to "deep study"?

The OK Corral...no.

I could list a long list of destinations I have visited here in the US, in Canada, in Central America, in Europe.

Again, how did these visits contribute to "deep learning"?

e) People
[quote]
do you know anything about Frida Kalho?
[/quote]

Yes.

Do you know of Zeno, Descartes, Heaviside, Newton?
Of Dürer, Holbein, Michelangelo, Brunelleschi, Turner, Cole, Kandinsky?
Of Olmsted?
Of Faraday, Geiger, Rutherford, Fermi, Feynman?

I could list people all day.

Knowing *something* about a person is not proof of "deep study".

But let's get to another point:

4)
[quote]college isn't the only place to 'expand your mind' with education[/quote]

[b]True, but visiting a list of places is NOT equivalent to having a Bachelor's degree.[/b]

They can add to one's knowledge, but understanding how things fit together, why they do, etc., is really important and the difference between a pile of facts and UNDERSTANDING them.

5)
[quote]
I like to get my info from a diffent type of expert, you may have a degree but that seems to be all you know, because of the staunch way you are defending it.[/quote]

LOL

The tour guide at the Jelly Belly factory is not an "expert" unless they have a thorough understanding of the chemical or mechanical processes (but people with that level of understanding don't typically run tours).

You speak of Dr. deGrasse Tyson, Dr. Hawking...those ARE experts, and I have met many Nobel Prizewinners in natural sciences (and Peace) and studied with some. So where we differ is in how shallow one's knowledge & understanding can be and be called an "expert".

You seem to be of the opinion that true education is worthless, but you exhibit no signs of having "deeply studied" much of anything.

An engaged student in a bachelor's program should have a strong basis from which to actually go forth and do self-study, esp. with a broad background. He or she should be able to think better, express him-/herself better, etc.

Perhaps most importantly, by achieving a Bachelor's degree, he/she should understand HOW to study, research something, evaluate sources, and come up with a personal understanding & synthesis of the material in a new area.

And by being exposed to lots of areas of study, that person should have seen a wide array of patterns, which is crucial to recognizing what is going on, seeing a potential solution--problem-solving, which is a fundamental human activity.

Of course, holders of bachelor's degrees had to demonstrate their level of ability quite a lot, in order to obtain that. How did you test your knowledge? How have you demonstrated the results of your "deep study"?