Is it worth trying to convince someone to get vaccinated ?
What are the pros & cons of Covid vaccination?
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kayoshin · 41-45, M
Pro get between 80 and 95% chance at immunity.pro get to travel to countries and areas that require vaccine without doing quarantine. Deciding when you get the desease if you react badly to the vaccine, instead of getting it randomly. You also lower your chances of being one of the 4 million deaths by Covid.
Cons: you get between 20% and 5% chances of wasting your time for nothing(doesn't work for you, no inmunity). You get a small chance of mild side effects that last under 48 hours. You get a chance in over a million of death by stroke related to vaccines.
Overall the chances of dying because of Covid are much higher than those of dying from the vaccine.
However these are simple facts. Since these facts are out there for everyone to see yet they choose not to take the vaccine, their decision is not a rational but emotional one. So your chances of changing their mind are slim.
Cons: you get between 20% and 5% chances of wasting your time for nothing(doesn't work for you, no inmunity). You get a small chance of mild side effects that last under 48 hours. You get a chance in over a million of death by stroke related to vaccines.
Overall the chances of dying because of Covid are much higher than those of dying from the vaccine.
However these are simple facts. Since these facts are out there for everyone to see yet they choose not to take the vaccine, their decision is not a rational but emotional one. So your chances of changing their mind are slim.
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MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
@kayoshin What’s the chance of dying from coronavirus?
SW-User
Well within the last year anything from having a heart attack or a car accident significantly increased your chances of dying of the lab leak virus. Anytime hospitals were paid for their civic deaths you have to wonder how accurate the numbers are @MrBrownstone
NerdyPotato · M
@NerdyPotato I agree. Emotional decisions are still valid. I just wish people would admit that rather than attempt to rationalize them and convince others to join in on their emotions.
kayoshin · 41-45, M
@SW-User sure by that logic no one in history ever died of AIDS. Since it never kills anyone, it merely helps. We should also stop preventing AIDS then. Good sane logic indeed.
My logic is simpler: follow the money. In this case everybody loses. No one has a clear monetary or power gain from pretending a virus is there when it isn't. Especially such a random virus like the flu or the cold family viruses. It's the dumbest weapon of choice if you would want to manipulate population because of it's uncontrollable propagation and how easily it can mutate. Hospitals also have no gain from inflating numbers since funding is limited and unlike USA most of them are publicly funded so killing off or bankrupting you your "shareholders" (tax payers) is not a great strategy.
My logic is simpler: follow the money. In this case everybody loses. No one has a clear monetary or power gain from pretending a virus is there when it isn't. Especially such a random virus like the flu or the cold family viruses. It's the dumbest weapon of choice if you would want to manipulate population because of it's uncontrollable propagation and how easily it can mutate. Hospitals also have no gain from inflating numbers since funding is limited and unlike USA most of them are publicly funded so killing off or bankrupting you your "shareholders" (tax payers) is not a great strategy.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User Y'all have been saying it's a lab leak since 1/1/2020, yet you haven't manage to produce a single tiny piece of evidence. Says a lot about your credibility.
SW-User
Hmmm yeah about that it’s crazy to think government’s will cover up their mishandlings like who would believe that China would cover something up and get rid of evidence. Also your liberal buddies in Washington canceled the investigation into it. It doesn’t take much brain activity to conclude that a lab that was gave millions of dollars to make a virus more dangerous had it leaked from their lab that just so happened to be where the virus started at. The fact you refuse to see that tells me you don’t need evidence it’s just another weak rebuttal you’ve had drilled into your head to throw around like conspiracy and coincidence and racist. @Elessar
NerdyPotato · M
@SW-User those are indeed plausible means, but what about motive? A crime doesn't start with means alone.
SW-User
@NerdyPotato for it to be a lab leak it didn’t necessarily have to be intentional there’s far out motives you could argue but that isn’t the point. This thing could have accidentally leaked out of the lab and obviously China would cover it up
Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User Hmmm yeah, start revising the definition of "evidence". What you're proposing is called "speculation" (intermixed with rightwing persecutory delusion) and has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm requesting.
You realize how science works, and that there is as of now 0 (zero) research pointing at an artificial origin as more likely than a natural one?
Again, as I said, you "knew" it was artificial one year ago, and back then just as now you have zero evidence (and zero credibility) over it.
There is a technical term for this, actually: Bullshit.
You realize how science works, and that there is as of now 0 (zero) research pointing at an artificial origin as more likely than a natural one?
Again, as I said, you "knew" it was artificial one year ago, and back then just as now you have zero evidence (and zero credibility) over it.
There is a technical term for this, actually: Bullshit.
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Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User Nice, you have no counterargument. Asking for evidence isn't "desperate", it's an essential step towards determining whether something you're hearing has a foundation or is pure BS.
are too prideful to admit you’ve been lied to and ate it up
Projecting much? Remember who said it would've gone away on its own in April, and who you probably voted for and still religiously follow?What motivates would the right wingers have for calling this a lab leak
Echoing the (now removed) moron-in-chief mentioned above.
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NerdyPotato · M
@SW-User I thought for a moment you had a point to extend, but then you started the waterfall of insults without any counter arguments or even any comment on what was said.
And just like that you proved @Elessar 100% right about you being a right wing Trump kisser.
And just like that you proved @Elessar 100% right about you being a right wing Trump kisser.
SW-User
Than you are reading this thread with rose colored glasses. This guy has used the same rebuttal multiple times after I had already made the point once. He brought trump and the insults up first and at that point his argument is moot. I never have or will consider Trump right wing he came to shit on the establishment and call out bull shit and the republicans changed their views to match his thst doesn’t make him a Republican in my eyes @NerdyPotato
Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User You've mentioned American politics first, I answered contextually.
As I said, you have no evidence - only the usual, old, now boring rightwing propaganda intermixed with rightwing persecutory mania.
Trump also, as a politician, is subject to criticism. We don't speak of "Draghi derangement syndrome", "Macron derangement syndrome", "Merkel derangement syndrome" and you know why? Because we don't idolize politicians. Trump is guilty of having handled the pandemic terribly, to the point it costed his re-election, and he did so also by spreading unfounded statements and trying to pass them as the truth - just as you.
No sheep is more stupid than the sheep who's calling others sheep, while trying to pass bullcr*p as a reality in order to convince themselves they haven't been following an idiot all along. Keep thriving in your denial.
As I said, you have no evidence - only the usual, old, now boring rightwing propaganda intermixed with rightwing persecutory mania.
Trump also, as a politician, is subject to criticism. We don't speak of "Draghi derangement syndrome", "Macron derangement syndrome", "Merkel derangement syndrome" and you know why? Because we don't idolize politicians. Trump is guilty of having handled the pandemic terribly, to the point it costed his re-election, and he did so also by spreading unfounded statements and trying to pass them as the truth - just as you.
No sheep is more stupid than the sheep who's calling others sheep, while trying to pass bullcr*p as a reality in order to convince themselves they haven't been following an idiot all along. Keep thriving in your denial.
SW-User
I have already made my statement on evidence any lab leak would have its evidence cleaned up by China who is infamous for censorship and propaganda. You then asked about motives and I said a lab leak doesn’t necessarily have to be intentional and that’s when you went off course starting a pattern of going farther and farther away from the topic at hand. I see it being way more likely that this leaked from the lab where it was being researched rather accidental or not isn’t the point and the Chinese government covered it up. And you refused to think of that as an option because lack of evidence like things don’t get covered up all the time. On big or small scales. A year ago I grew pounds and pounds of magic mushrooms and guess what there is no evidence it ever happened because I cleaned it up when I was done @Elessar
Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User And that statement is no evidence - again, revise the concept of evidence, and in particular the difference with speculation.
"Patterns", James Bond plots, "evil liberals want to cancel my titties 😢" and other subjective stuff like that do NOT qualify as evidence. Sequence the virus, find some portion that couldn't have occurred naturally, write and publish a paper about it, and then if no faults are found in your study that'll be evidence.
As of now, one year and a half later, no one found anything. All we have so far points to a natural origin, like it or not.
"Patterns", James Bond plots, "evil liberals want to cancel my titties 😢" and other subjective stuff like that do NOT qualify as evidence. Sequence the virus, find some portion that couldn't have occurred naturally, write and publish a paper about it, and then if no faults are found in your study that'll be evidence.
As of now, one year and a half later, no one found anything. All we have so far points to a natural origin, like it or not.
SW-User
👌 you clearly don’t see the point at hand I don’t even know what to say beside ignorance is bliss and that’s way so many people willingly stay in that’s of mind evidence is moot when discussing something that can easily be covered up but you will never ever change your way of thinking no matter what is placed in front of your face @Elessar
NerdyPotato · M
@SW-User
Of course China is infamous for that, but making destruction of evidence part of a theory does not turn lack of evidence into a sign that the theory is correct.
It remains a theory not backed by evidence, whether there is a reason for lack thereof or not.
any lab leak would have its evidence cleaned up by China who is infamous for censorship and propaganda
Of course China is infamous for that, but making destruction of evidence part of a theory does not turn lack of evidence into a sign that the theory is correct.
It remains a theory not backed by evidence, whether there is a reason for lack thereof or not.
SW-User
I mean that’s why it’s called a lab leak theory it’s just ridiculous to brush it under the rug like only a conspiracy theorist would be taking about it @NerdyPotato
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