This is about Santa Claus.

@RemovedUsername1042818 Dang. You said it all. This is what I tried to say in my comment as well but I didn't do as good of describing it as you did. Great answer.

@RemovedUsername1042818 I can't think of any anything more narcissistic than thinking everyone who is different HAS to relate to white people and that asking for representation in their culture is a bad thing.

@Pherick YES!!!!

@Pherick So it doesn't matter that Santa Claus is patterned after a white guy????

@Dainbramadge [quote]The legend of Santa Claus can be traced back hundreds of years to a monk named St. Nicholas. It is believed that Nicholas was born sometime around 280 A.D. in Patara, near Myra in modern-day Turkey.[/quote]

I can guarantee you that a guy born in 280 AD near modern day Turkey was NOT a "white guy".

I am just saying that modern day Santa imaging has its roots for most of us in the US in 50's marketing campaigns. So its obviously a creation, why would anyone care if some Latino kids would like a Latino Santa or if some people want a black female to play Santa? Its all made up anyway, who cares? Why get in a tizzy because someone wants a slightly different made up version of your made up version?

@Pherick the modern Santa Claus came from ‘Twas the Night Before Christmas.

Personally, I have no patience for people who hang mercilessly onto white tradition as if it’s the only one that counts.

But I also have no patience for people who whine about cultural misappropriation.

We have borrowed from each other throughout history.

The key is to not lose the point behind whatever the tradition is.

@Pherick Does it matter if it is a commercialized thing from the '50's. It is still a traditional figure. If someone wants to alter it to fit a specific community that is fine. But to make a mockery of the tradition by publicizing an alternate version is just selfishness in my opinion. So what do you want to rewrite " A visit from ST.Nick " to have a gender neutral Santa? Where do you plan to circulate it?
Can't anything just be left alone?
Won't a tradition for kids be overly complicated when they see a fat, white Santa at the mall and then see a black woman at the next or in a book at home??? Or even a book at school? How many books do they need to supply at school to fit every situation?? Then won't that be a step into segregation??

@JoeyFoxx I have trouble understanding people who hate a tradition just because it revolves around white people and feel a need to change it for that soul purpose.

@JoeyFoxx [quote]This image became popular in the United States and Canada in the 19th century due to the significant influence of the 1823 poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" and of caricaturist and political cartoonist Thomas Nast.[/quote]

@Dainbramadge Its traditional for certain people who have memories of that 50's time period. It doesn't mean its traditional for huge swaths of people who are new to this country or just grew up without that background.

No one is taking anything away from you, enjoy your white Santa. It just means your fat white Santa isn't the only one out there.

Why is it OK to have multiple Santas's all over the US as long as they are white? Do you think kids don't "know" that the mall Santa isn't the real Santa or the same Santa as the one they saw someplace else?

This just seems like such an odd hill to die on. You celebrate with your fat white Santa and someone else will celebrate with their skinny latino Santa and I will celebrate by burning my Yule log. We can just all be happy with our different things.

@Dainbramadge @Pherick
How’s this for Santa?

@wilderflower She can climb down my chimney any night of the year ;)

@wilderflower I don't think I would trust my boys with that version.😂

@Pherick OK. Going out on a limb here and guessing you don't have kids.
Kids see the mall Santa and they know that is the real deal because they saw him in the books and ornaments strung all over hell's half acre.
As long as he is fat, in a red suit and has a big white beard that indeed is Santa. Oh yeah, it doesn't hurt if he has some elves with him either.

@Dainbramadge “A Visit from St Nicholas” is the same poem as “‘Twas the Night Before Christmas “

As was stated above, no one is attempting to invalidate the Western European/British/North American Santa. It’s just that there are dozens of equally valid traditions around the world. (Look up the candy shitting log in Barcelona. It’s a thing)

The fat Santa we know in the US is not the only valid story this time of year. It is one of many.

@Dainbramadge I don't have kids, but weird switch, I HAVE played Santa before, on a few occasions. I am just a fat jolly white guy, so I get stereotyped.

The magic of Xmas isn't about having one exact guy in a suit you tell your gift dreams to. Its about the whole experience and the color of the person in the suit just doesn't matter. If YOU make it a big deal, your kids will pick up on that and it will be a deal to them. If you just go with it, your kids will too.

Xmas should be a magical time for everyone, there is plenty of room under the Xmas umbrella for all Santas.

@JoeyFoxx I'm not doubting what you have said here but this thread started about a gender neutral Santa.
I have nothing against other traditions. I just don't want mine to change because a few think it should be P.C. .

@Pherick That is funny about being stereotyped.
The whole situation has nothing to do with me. It has to do with what has been going on for lots and lots of years. The tradition of Santa. Can't just undo that kind of stuff.

@Pherick The healthy and well adjusted individual understands and appreciates the uniqueness that various physical characteristics, like race, gender, etc. contribute to a character. The racist demands that the character must look and act exactly like them to be able to relate to them. And yes, hating white people makes you a fucking racist. The world would be a slightly nicer place without people like you.

@RemovedUsername1042818 ummmm

He IS white. Are you saying that he hates his own race?

@JoeyFoxx Yes, moron.

Well. Aren’t you charming.

All in the spirit of Christmas.

@RemovedUsername1042818

@JoeyFoxx Yeah, I'm not about to let a bunch of freaks and weirdos subvert and destroy Christmas. Leave Santa and the holiday alone you fuck.

@RemovedUsername1042818 LOL Wow, you are one stupid mother fucker 🤣

@Pherick That's rich coming from the one demanding that everyone go along with black disabled midget tranny Santa 😂👌