Do you believe someone can not fully love another until they learn how to love themselves?

@Miram I agree, but one has to accept support and love to be loved... this just hasn’t been my experience

@Tryingtofindabalance

Self love is mostly a product of one's childhood and you have so little control when it comes to it. Until there is a revolutionary realization in your life to step back and process everything. Many successful people put on the mask of self love when in fact all their success is just an attempt to change their past, fear and assimilation. Even those successful in relationships

Love for others is rather different. It is about the present and it is the second most important transformational connection you have. It transcends "I".

This " you can't love others until you love yourself" is just a cultural misconception.

And "you can't love fully" is just not rational, in more depth is a better expression.

But I haven't met many who love in depth " always" .

And the journey doesn't happen seperately from being loved.

It’s obvious to the mixed emotions of this post that this is obviously not a belief by most people...

As I agree that loving yourself is different than loving others, it is obvious it is different, just like the love you have for your family is different than the love you have for your partner.

Loving yourself is a function of your self worth, I personally know zero people who have low self esteem and are regularly happy people... if your not regularly happy it’s difficult to be in a stable healthy relationship, specially if you don’t accept help from your partner... there is a correlation between the two.

@Tryingtofindabalance

People take time to open up. People who seem not as "regularly happy" can be accepted by some and supported. And because of that acceptance they may improve.

It's also a possibility that they need a different person to share and grow with.

Even those who seem to love themselves may shelter others from their problems.

@Miram I’m not saying people can’t improve thier mental state... I’m simply saying if they can’t love themselves they can’t love others... there are always exceptions to every scenario, but generally speaking

@Tryingtofindabalance
Which I certainly disagree with. It's a misconception.

@Miram are you sure it isn’t you that has the misconception here? 😏

@Tryingtofindabalance

Yes , I am very sure.

I see love for others in every cancer patient who hates himself, his look, his fate and yet continue the battle because they love others. Same for the suicidal who chooses life, the self abusive and the destructive.

Btw it's not just my belief, experience or observation. This subject has been tackled by many psychologists and lot of them disagree. You don't need to love yourself to love others and be regularly happy.

But loving yourself can add depth.

@Miram having a traumatic event is not the same as self esteem issues...
I never questioned whether my exes loved me... I’m sure they did.., but love is beyond words or inner feelings,,, Love is action as well.

Listen, the path to hell is paved with good intentions, just like thinking one thing, and doing another is.

@Tryingtofindabalance

Self esteem is the product of the past. Traumatic events can contribute to it.

What happened between you and ex's isn't what happens everywhere or the general rule. Most make whatever conclusions helping them to move forward.

True, love is demonstrated through actions and I can't see a more powerful demonstration than choosing others over oneself. I am sorry you don't feel they did so for you.

@Miram I didnt need or want them to choose me over themselves... I’m simply saying that in my experience... my partners unhappiness with themselves spilled over into our relationship and effected it negatively. Despite trying to help, despite trying to find a solution, despite everything, thier emotional unhappiness drove a wedge between us. Despite the research that you claim to be available, there is an undeniable correlation between the two. THere will always be outliers... and I’m not talking about AIDS and cancer patients... that’s like lumping scratch victims with amputees... it’s just not the same

@Tryingtofindabalance [quote]You can't love others if you don't love yourself[/quote]

You made that rule and I responded to it. You can Google what psychologists think of it too if you are truly interested in understanding why it's wrong. But I don't think you are.

I am not saying you needed it. I am saying it's the greatest action of love. And I see it in people who truly display self hatred.

@Miram I asked the question do you think you can’t love others if you don’t love yourself.

I made no rules, by making a statement it is hardly a steadfast certainty. I will not research this topic, simply isn’t that important to me...

Are there depressed people who have compassion? Yes. ARe there depressed people who are bitter and care about no one? Yes. Whats the right answer?

Depression effects relationships... it’s not always necessarily bad, but there is change. Whether it is offering help and the relationship grows, or a wedge is instilled in the relationship both are a function of the depression experienced by the people in said relationship

So now it's about depression specifically? Are there people who seem to love themselves and care about no one?

It's the same variation. The only aspect O disagreed with is the quote I already mentioned. The rest is relative and non idealistic enough to be realistic when not taken as absolute.

@Miram do you know anyone who has horrible self image and isn’t depressed? I don’t... once again, I’m sure there are outliers...

Sociopaths tend to have high self image and don’t care about others, once again not always the case, but typical

So you had a problem with my quote, but you are quoting journals that state the opposite... those are just as subjective as any other experience. Specially if we look at those who had positive self image before being diagnosed with a terminal illness and now have a low self image... completely different circumstances

@Tryingtofindabalance It is not just terminal illnesses. It is all conditions related to self esteem. And psychologists, even if they are using their own experiences with patients, are better equipped with tools to look at them in more depth and objectively. They don't tend to settle for the convenient conclusions. And I didn't quote their work, I made references.

Every case has different circumstances even those you group under that one oversimplification.

And no, it is not just sociopaths. It is narcissists , delusions of grandeur ..etc and normal people display the same behaviours as those who qualify to be a pathological case. Just like people who don't suffer clinic depression can have low self esteem. It's the degree and whether or not it interferes with their daily functioning that makes it a clinical disorder.

I believe this is the longest conversation we ever had. By all means, I hope the rest of your evening is peaceful..

I’m not sure why we are discussing diagnosis of clinical disorders, or what types of people in society have the inability to care for others... but this getting way off topic.

Bottom line is this, i don’t care the context of every journal in the world, what I know is this...

Depression and low self image has destroyed past relationships... some people can’t cope, or will not accept help and creates a wedge in a relationship. Despite what you believe, this is a reality, look at other responses in this post... there are far more people agreeing than denying.., that doesn’t mean it’s 100% correct.., but there are enough experiences on here, including one who agreed as he was the one with the issues!

@Miram don’t think I am offended, I am all for constructive conversation, and would happy to have daily discussions with you