Where was the last place you traveled to? How did you enjoy your stay there?

@AmbivalentFriability I was pretty unimpressed from my quick drive through Idaho. Then again, I'm incredibly spoiled by nature living in Colorado. Many other places aren't going to compare.

What does a natural medicine practitioner even do, besides the obvious? How did that session go?

This one "read my energy", and looked at my eyes (she practices iridology*) and asked me a few questions. I believe some parts of natural medicine have a place in what people do to maintain their overall health, but this woman was kind of nuts and not particularly intelligent or well educated. She tried to tell us that vaccines were made with monkey and aborted baby parts and tried to get me to trade in my anti depressants for B vitamins and a calcium/magnesium supplement but not before telling me that two of her students (she was a teacher, the horror) had killed themselves, but not that they themselves had been on antidepressants though she sure implied that they had played a role in their deaths. It was a frustrating experience. I'm not sure if you're familiar with how tupperware works (or rather how it's sold), but she works for a company that is basically tupperware for natural vitamins and supplements. I think she really believes what she tells people, but more than anything I think it's just about making money, and not helping people. I've had much better experiences with other natural medicine practitioners, and I think people like this woman do a great disservice to the field of natural medicine.

[quote]*Iridology (also known as iridodiagnosis or iridiagnosis) is an alternative medicine technique whose proponents claim that patterns, colors, and other characteristics of the iris can be examined to determine information about a patient's systemic health.[/quote]

Anyway, I don't [i]really[/i] know what they do... o_o

I've just been going to them on and off for most of my life because my parents believe in that sort of stuff. They've never been fond of the western world and it's ways, and that extends to health care apparently.

@AmbivalentFriability Wow. That's just bonkers. I mean, the conflict of interest is understandable, but I would not have any patience for the rest of that. It's clearly junk science. Not that you need the reminder.

That's gotta be frustrating though. Being coerced basically to see a bunch of snake oil salesmen because your parents feel like they're smarter than doctors.

There are so many industries like that too, that don't need to exist. Unnecessary pills and creams and books and all sorts of ...well, garbage. Everyone expects a miracle but can't fully grasp that good things take a lot of work.

Not necessarily taking aim at your parents, but just in general, it's a behavior I see time and again. It's with politics, science, educations, etc. If the experts can't promise instant results, they look for the next person that will

The pills did actually help me by the way. But I feel like they'd help anyone to a degree... 🤷‍♀️ It wasn't that I needed specifically those pills, they just had generally helpful properties, I think.

I guess people don't have the patience to understand that no one's going to have all of the answers, and no one way of doing things is perfect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know what they're doing or that it's all a big waste of time.

I think it pays really well to be thoughtful and keep an open mind while you figure out what works and what doesn't for you personally and then continue to remember to keep an open mind. 😅 People seem to forget that a lot. And I guess it's not an easy thing to do after you've had a few experiences with something that didn't work in your favour. I think that's where patience and thoughtfulness comes in.

I don't hold people's searching for miracles and perfection or whatever (across ideologies, science, politics, education, etc.) against them too too much. I suppose I understand. Though it's definitely very frustrating. They're doing a lot of harm to themselves and others.

@AmbivalentFriability Given the propensity for people to make a buck off of other people's tragedies, I'm pretty skeptical of alternative medicines. Homeopathy in particular has been proven ineffective so many times that the government here actually requires those remedies to state that they haven't proven effective. Too many people were dying or complicating their illnesses by choosing that path to wellness

That's the thing about medicine though. Pills and treatments have to undergo rigorous testing and evaluation processes for them to ever make it to the market. You need control groups and large sample sizes to make sure you're selling something that does what it says it does.

With alternative medicines, that process isn't required. You can basically just say that it cures a certain thing without any evidence behind it. It's makes it really difficult to verify that the treatments are actually effective. For all you know, they could be taking you for a ride. Sometimes the line between being open-minded and being gullible isn't so clear

@SW-User
I understand what you're saying. With my experiences I'm more inclined to agree than to not. But I think I'm never going to completely discount natural medicine and it's potential. I guess my experiences are both a source of doubt and some kind of belief in it.

Just for the sake of clarity (and my own peace of mind :p), what I mean with "open-minded" is more just being open to having your way of thinking challenged in general, not necessarily just with what we're talking about here.
That being said, critical thinking is a virtue.
I'm sure you understood that, but I can't seem to help my tendency to over explain (usually pointlessly and unhelpfully) sometimes. :| Potential misunderstandings have been the bane of my interactions with people.

@AmbivalentFriability I can respect being open to natural medicines. There is history behind at least certain remedies. They might not have gone through clinical trials, but lots of trial and error from pre-medicine days are good enough. It's just without having some kind of solid evidence, it's hard to put your faith in something like that.

It seems like too much of the proof for those cures is reliant on confirmation bias or post hoc fallacy. It ignores the role of the immune system or the placebo effect curing certain ailments on their own and overemphasizes the role of whatever medicines they prescribed. It's why the FDA always uses control groups.

Plus, when businesses want to sell magic toxin-absorbing socks or energy-boosting wrist bands, they rely on vaguely scientific jargon to market their products without really getting into the hows and the whys.

Anyways, I'm going on way too long about this. I just think most businesses lack the integrity they should and rely on half-truths and misinformation to turn a profit. That kinda stuff bothers me. I can't speak to the validity of every single natural medicine, but I've seen enough false claims from that camp to warrant casting a blanket of doubt on the field until I can see otherwise.