Many people dabble in the mystical, occultic arts. Is there anything wrong with being involved in these practices? [Spirituality & Religion]

It is very clear that God strictly forbids all forms of divination. This includes all forms of mediumship, channeling, witchcraft [Wicca], occultism, psychic, fortune telling, tarot cards, reading tea leaves, etc. Divination is forbidden by God because it unlocks the door to the world of the demonic and spiritual deception.

* Leviticus 19:31 - Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

* Leviticus 20:6 - And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

God’s Word indicates that these practices are part of Satan’s strategy of evil tricks and deception, designed to lead us astray. Satan and his demons are real beings set on our destruction. Christians are warned to… “put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Ephesians 6:11-12).

Concerning occult practices, the Israelites were told: “When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire [an ancient occult practice], or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination [detestable] to the LORD…” —Deuteronomy 18:9-12

Astrology (predictions by the planets or moon; horoscopes; is sometimes referred to as “observing times” in the Old Testament):

Although the Bible does not go into great detail about astrology, it certainly makes its position clear. We should never trust in astrological beliefs or predictions. Astrology is an ancient, heathen practice that leads to disaster. Our lives are not determined by the stars or movement of planets. The Bible warns against the false predictions of astrology (Jeremiah 10:2; 27:9-10; Daniel 2:1-4; 4:7; 5:7-9) and repeatedly condemns the associated practice of worshipping the sun, moon and stars (or “deities or demons associated with them”) (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:2-5; 2 Kings 21:3, 5; Zephaniah 1:5; Job 31:26-28; Jeremiah 8:1-2). In Isaiah, God rebukes the Babylonians for practicing astrology, …For you have trusted in your wickedness… Therefore evil shall come upon you… trouble shall fall upon you… Isaiah 47:10-14

Magic, spells, enchantments, charming, sorcery, wizardry, and witchcraft:

Occult magic is often fraudulent and deceitful illusion—counterfeit miracles. Many books have been written on this subject. In some instances, occult magic or divination are a manifestation of demonic powers or the result of demon possession (Acts 16:16). Of course, the power of Satan and his demons is extremely limited compared to God’s power. Those who follow the path of the magic arts are on the wrong path - a road that leads away from God, not toward Him. In one way or another, the end will be disaster. The evil Queen Jezebel practiced witchcraft (2 Kings 9:22) bringing catastrophe on herself and all Israel. Over and over, God denounces those who “conjure spells” and those who practice witchcraft and sorcery. The Bible says that anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord (Deuteronomy 18:10-12; 2 Kings 21:6; Micah 5:12; Isaiah 47:12; Ezekiel 13:18, 20; Acts 8:11-24; Leviticus 20:27; Exodus 7:11; Revelation 9:21; 22:15).

Those who practice witchcraft (sorcery) will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:20-21). These practices are anti-God and are in rebellion against Him. Many of citizens of ancient Ephesus practiced the magic arts. Those who became Christians realized the foolish error of their former lives and burned their expensive books of magic as the trash they were (Acts 19:19). The Bible tells how the apostle Paul once dealt with one of these deceivers, a sorcerer and false prophet who led people astray. “Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, ’O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.’ And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand” (Acts 13:9-11).

Divination, fortune-telling, mediums, spiritism, necromancy, familiar spirits, wizardry, seances, channeling, clairvoyance, and spirit-guides:

The Bible strongly warns people not to consult mediums and spiritists for the truth, but to inquire of God (Isaiah 8:19). Clearly, if those who practiced these arts have any power (beyond being great deceivers), it is not a gift from God (as some falsely claim). The Bible condemns and forbids these practices several times (Deuteronomy 18:9-14; Isaiah 44:25; Jeremiah 27:9; 2 Kings 21:6; 23:24). Divination and spiritism were despised practices of the heathens (Ezekiel 21:21; Isaiah 19:3; 1 Samuel 28). The Bible provides examples showing the folly and failures of those who claimed the ability to predict the future based on their own powers or those of spirits (Daniel 2:27, etc.). God calls the word of diviners “nonsense,” “lies” and “deception” for foolish people (Ezekiel 13:8; Jeremiah 14:14; Isaiah 44:25). God said, “Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!” (Ezekiel 13:3). If an Israelite lived the deceitful practice of being a medium, it was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:27). The presence of a medium or spiritist among God’s people of Israel was considered a defilement (Leviticus 19:31). All these practices take people further from their Creator, the true and living God.

Following omens or signs:

We are not to look to omens or “signs” to direct our lives. The Bible reprimands people for doing this. It is an “abomination” and foolishness (Deuteronomy 18:10-12). Look to God and His instructions for life as provided in the Bible. To do otherwise is to foolishly deceive yourself, or allow Satan and others to deceive you.

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amethyst1 · 36-40, F

The wise men are actually believed to have been astrologers. Magi comes from the word magic. They are thought to have followed a star (actually a planet) to Bethlehem. Some things in the Bible were edited out because people later didn't approve of them.

Witchcraft today is based on people thinking of an intent, something they want to improve themselves to make things better or even for things like world peace. They might write things down or chant it, similar to a prayer. Herbs represent things - sometimes things like health which makes sense due to their properties, like eucalyptus helping you breathe. Lighting a candle isn't that dissimilar to Christianity. In fact, many Pagan traditions were adopted by the church to persuade them to convert.

I don't see what's wrong with some of the forms of 'fortune telling' you mentioned, personally although I'm not a devout Christian, I was raised one (not Catholic). Some are just meant as a guide or your own interpretation. Much is out of curiosity. They do have their rules of conduct like usually not telling someone something really bad. I've been warned about Ouija boards. I'm not sure about contacting the dead personally. I don't know if I believe in it, but it's not something I feel that is right for me.

You are likely aware of witch trials in centuries past. People weren't and still aren't sure what witches did. Some people were folk healers and used herbs as medicine, like people today might have peppermint tea or use lavender to try and sleep. Most of it seemed to be through fear. Many people were convicted even though it was not clear if they even did anything of this sort.

Jesus came back to life, and there is the term 'holy spirit's. This seems a bit contradictory to me. Some of Christianity is good and makes sense, but I'm not happy personally with anyone going to hell/the devil who isn't a Christian. They may be a perfectly moral person and do good deeds, or it may even be a forbidden religion in their country or not the one that is accepted. And there are non practising Christians - and brought up as one of those I can't say my beliefs and actions are really any different now (I'm not sure what I'd class myself now - nothing in particular, but I am open to other religions and paths of life and I think this is healthier than being totally against it as the Bible says, or telling people they will go to hell which I would never do, because I think it is mean, it is just a belief, and it doesn't help them or you.)

Sometimes we look for signs and patterns just to make sense of things in our lives, even Christians. I don't know believe this is bad. I don't know if I believe in omens.

LadyGrace ·

Amethyst1: The wise men are actually believed to have been astrologers. Magi comes from the word magic. They are thought to have followed a star (actually a planet) to Bethlehem. Some things in the Bible were edited out because people later didn't approve of them.

Answer: Let's take a look at this. Magi means "wise men". There were not just three magi, as often depicted in early Christian art (actually, Matthew does not tell us how many there were), nor are they Babylonian astrologers or Persian Zoroastrians, as other early traditions held.

Some practice astrology as a way of practicing divination or sorcery – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future through self-invented means (e.g. horoscopes) – or interpreting omens – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future on the basis of abnormal phenomena. But not all astrology falls into these categories. It is God who created the sun, moon, and stars, put them in place, and set them in motion. He even says that he put them there “for signs” (Gen 1:14)

The warning is that we do not replace the Creator with the created, or the source with the sign. The stars do not run our lives. The stars do not hold our future. The stars should not be worshipped (Dt 4:19) Nor should the stars be studied as sources of the truth, but only as signs confirming the truth of God’s word. The stars do not provide us with the ultimate assurance of our salvation or of the truth of our religion; God’s word does. (If the stars are like a clock, they are predictable to an extent, and so Satan also knows how to use them to try to mislead us.)
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You said: Witchcraft today is based on people thinking of an intent, something they want to improve themselves to make things better or even for things like world peace. They might write things down or chant it, similar to a prayer. Herbs represent things - sometimes things like health which makes sense due to their properties, like eucalyptus helping you breathe. Lighting a candle isn't that dissimilar to Christianity. In fact, many Pagan traditions were adopted by the church to persuade them to convert.

Answer: Jesus said it entices people to call upon the power of Satan and has nothing to do with peace, but the dark forces (demons) of this universe. If it were so innocent, God would not be so forcefully against it. He hates it, and demands we have nothing to do with it, in any way, shape, or form. It is HIS interpretation of it that counts. Not yours or mine. He makes the rules. He commands His followers to have nothing to do with it. We can't just ignore that and His wishes, nor trivialize it. If He says it's wrong, it's wrong. This includes "some forms" of fortune telling. It's not the lighting of the candle that is wrong, but the motive and purpose behind it.
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You said:
I don't see what's wrong with some of the forms of 'fortune telling' you mentioned, personally although I'm not a devout Christian, I was raised one (not Catholic). Some are just meant as a guide or your own interpretation. Much is out of curiosity. They do have their rules of conduct like usually not telling someone something really bad. I've been warned about Ouija boards. I'm not sure about contacting the dead personally. I don't know if I believe in it, but it's not something I feel that is right for me.

My reply: No one. And I mean no one...becomes a Christian as a result of being raised in what may have been a Christian home. The Bible is very clear on that. "You must be born-again." John 3:3

Followers of Christ do not dabble in the paranormal, whether that be Ouija Boards, witchcraft, seances, everything I've mentioned in my post. I am not surprised at your response, however, as you noted in your profile that you practice witchcraft (the group you joined).
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You saidYou are likely aware of witch trials in centuries past. People weren't and still aren't sure what witches did. Some people were folk healers and used herbs as medicine, like people today might have peppermint tea or use lavender to try and sleep. Most of it seemed to be through fear. Many people were convicted even though it was not clear if they even did anything of this sort.

My answer: Of course people know what witches did. They practiced witchcraft. Just like today. Conjuring up Satan's assistance and power. We cannot water this down to make it look innocent.

Herbs are good and God said for us to use them for healing. Not Satan or his powers.
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You said:
Jesus came back to life, and there is the term 'holy spirit's. This seems a bit contradictory to me. Some of Christianity is good and makes sense, but I'm not happy personally with anyone going to hell/the devil who isn't a Christian. They may be a perfectly moral person and do good deeds, or it may even be a forbidden religion in their country or not the one that is accepted. And there are non practising Christians - and brought up as one of those I can't say my beliefs and actions are really any different now (I'm not sure what I'd class myself now - nothing in particular, but I am open to other religions and paths of life and I think this is healthier than being totally against it as the Bible says, or telling people they will go to hell which I would never do, because I think it is mean, it is just a belief, and it doesn't help them or you.)

My reply:. There is only One Spirit. God said so in His Word. That is the Holy Spirit. When he came back to life, the term was "Holy Spirit", not in the plural. Never in scripture will you read the word "Holy Spirits".

As for salvation, one must look at the big picture. Who are we to question God's judgement? We are not God. He doesn't think nor reason like we do. He is perfect and sinless. He does not make mistakes. There's a reason why He gave us His Word. So we would know, and not have to guess how to have eternal life in heaven. People avoid that because they don't want to take responsibility for their sins. "Religion" is man-made philosophy. Religion didn't die and suffer for your sins. Jesus did. Not one of the other religions offer salvation through Jesus, by faith through grace (unearned favor from God). Not one. Jesus said, "No man can come to the Father, but by Me." John 14:6 God is no liar.

God's wrath was satisfied in Jesus - Romans 3:26. He did what we could not do, and he has done what we didn’t deserve. Jesus paid the debt that we owed, so that God can show His grace and love to all that trust in Jesus Christ. Jesus is not mad at us. He loves us with all His heart. God is not willing that any perish. He is not against people. He is against SIN. It separates us from God. Heaven wouldn't be heaven, if sin was there. When we acknowledge that and ask for forgiveness, he forgives and that brings us back into fellowship with God, giving us eternal life in heaven. He not only said He loves us, He proved it when He took all our sins upon Himself and paid the penalty for sin, which is death.

Followers of Christ do not look for signs. They have Jesus.

amethyst1 · 36-40, F

@ImagineThat: This looks like it could be a long deep conversation! I will reply to some now as my concentration is not the best at the moment, so I will do what I can.
How did you quote me by the way? I pressed the quote buttons but it just came up saying <quote><quote> or something and not sure if it actually came up with anything!

I'm just copy and pasting.

Imagine that says: Let's take a look at this. Magi means "wise men". There were not just three magi, as often depicted in early Christian art (actually, Matthew does not tell us how many there were), nor are they Babylonian astrologers or Persian Zoroastrians, as other early traditions held.

Some practice astrology as a way of practicing divination or sorcery – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future through self-invented means (e.g. horoscopes) – or interpreting omens – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future on the basis of abnormal phenomena. But not all astrology falls into these categories. It is God who created the sun, moon, and stars, put them in place, and set them in motion. He even says that he put them there “for signs” (Gen 1:14)

My response: I hadn't heard of the theory of them possibly being Zoroastrians, even if untrue. Interesting to know.

A book I read said Magi comes from the word Magic. The word looks similar so it makes sense. I was told when I was younger and learning about Christmas through a Christian school that Magi meant wise men, too. Your source is the Bible. My source on it coming from the word magic - another factual book.

Astrology is a form of prediction so some Christians might disapprove. Others don't. Things in the Bible are interpreted differently but different people or are taking more seriously by different sects of the faith.

Imagine that says "'He even says he put them there for signs'".The warning is that we do not replace the Creator with the created, or the source with the sign.

I can understand more now why people in centuries past thought an eclipse (which they did not understand) meant the end of the world was coming. Indeed it could have been quite frightening, not knowing what was actually happening with the sun and moon. So what does it mean when there is an eclipse? If the moon is orangey yellow? I only have scientific answers, but how are people meant to interpret it. We interpret it as we see best and in a way we can understand. I see you are referring to it as a way of saying that astrology isn't necessarily telling the future or 'sorcery', and I think perhaps what actually is 'sorcery', a rather old fashioned term, perhaps based on bias, needs to be defined, but astrology is trying to predict or guide the future really, at least in terms of horoscopes. I dont know how we know for certain that the wise men weren't astrologers. You can be wise and astrologers, or considered perhaps in those times, to be wise because of that. Your reasoning will, it looks, be based on what the Bible says since you have strong Christian faith but I don't know how we can know everything especially as some bits to be included in the Bible were left out and much of it was written centuries later. And since it wasn't written by Jesus himself there is going to be bias.

amethyst1 · 36-40, F

@ImagineThat: part 2
Answer: Jesus said it entices people to call upon the power of Satan and has nothing to do with peace, but the dark forces (demons) of this universe. If it were so innocent, God would not be so forcefully against it. He hates it, and demands we have nothing to do with it, in any way, shape, or form. It is HIS interpretation of it that counts. Not yours or mine. He makes the rules. He commands His followers to have nothing to do with it. We can't just ignore that and His wishes, nor trivialize it. If He says it's wrong, it's wrong. This includes "some forms" of fortune telling. It's not the lighting of the candle that is wrong, but the motive and purpose behind it.

Today, and certainly in the past few centuries (1800s+) Witches did and do not call upon the power of Satan. This is totally untrue. Read a book on Paganism, Witchcraft, Wicca (definitions are slightly different but NONE call upon Satan). You won't though, I suspect, because you think it is evil (I'm not meaning this in a harsh tone at all, just saying what I think to be true). The idea of God and Satan were brought about by Christianity so they certainly could not have 'called upon Satan' before then.

Little is known of Paganism in the past especially Witchcraft as it was forbidden and outlawed. What is known is Christians tried to convert Pagans by using much of their symbolism and adapting festivals throughout the year. What is also known is that Christians were fearful of Witches and that many were killed during Witchcraft trials in many countries. Some sources say the term Witch was not coined by people who may have had non Christian practises at all. Many were killed and there is no proof for some, what they did wrong.

It is certainly not all about the dark and demons! How can wishing someone peace, using herbs for healing an ailment be evil?!

God and Jesus wanted people to follow their way and their teachings and to believe that their way was the only way, and the way to salvation which is why people converted and tried to convert others. I think much of what is said about Witchcraft including in the Bible is due to fear, and many Christians also live in fear that they will do wrong.

I will continue at some point, if I feel like it.

I definitely don't want any arguments or anything.

LadyGrace ·

@amethyst1: Yes, I can see this can get long. Haha. Yes, being a follower of God, I only go by what His Word teaches. Yes, all I did was copy and paste your words into another reply box, then added my answers so you would know what I was answering. Here's why I go strictly by scripture:

Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"

Galatians 1:6 - "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel."

As for the Bible, God did not entrust His sacred Word to just anyone. He gave it Holy men of old. Huge difference.

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". II Peter 1:21.

In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which means “God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God,” but other scriptural passages support the basic premise of Scripture being inspired by God.

Even if people don't believe in the Bible, they can look at Jesus, alone, and know that He is God.

You and I know that anyone can make claims. There have been others who have claimed to be God. I could claim to be God, and you could claim to be God, but the question all of us must answer is, "What credentials do we bring to substantiate our claim?" In my case it wouldn't take you five minutes to disprove my claim. It probably wouldn't take too much more to dispose of yours. But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, he had the credentials to back up his claim. He said, "Even though you do not believe me, believe the evidence of the miracles, that you may learn and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."

There's nothing wrong with using herbs for healing. God's Word even says to do that. As food for the body. Jesus spoke of witchcraft, but not because He feared it. If He said it's wrong, that's good enough for me. I don't worship out of fear. The Lord said there is no fear in perfect love, which is his love. Yes, people go overboard and to the extreme. I just go strictly by what God says in His Word.

Satan worshippers have no qualms about letting people know they derive their power from, and worship Satan. God is the one that calls witchcraft evil. Look how strongly he is against any of that, from what I wrote in my original post. God is sinless. He has no evil in him, neither did he create evil. That was a choice made by Satan, to be evil. Scripture says evil was found in Satan.

There's nothing wrong with astrology. However, used in the wrong way, God is against it. @amethyst1: