parttimelisa · 61-69, M
The God of the Christian bible "forbids" it. My God is not in a box.
amethyst1 · 36-40, F
The wise men are actually believed to have been astrologers. Magi comes from the word magic. They are thought to have followed a star (actually a planet) to Bethlehem. Some things in the Bible were edited out because people later didn't approve of them.
Witchcraft today is based on people thinking of an intent, something they want to improve themselves to make things better or even for things like world peace. They might write things down or chant it, similar to a prayer. Herbs represent things - sometimes things like health which makes sense due to their properties, like eucalyptus helping you breathe. Lighting a candle isn't that dissimilar to Christianity. In fact, many Pagan traditions were adopted by the church to persuade them to convert.
I don't see what's wrong with some of the forms of 'fortune telling' you mentioned, personally although I'm not a devout Christian, I was raised one (not Catholic). Some are just meant as a guide or your own interpretation. Much is out of curiosity. They do have their rules of conduct like usually not telling someone something really bad. I've been warned about Ouija boards. I'm not sure about contacting the dead personally. I don't know if I believe in it, but it's not something I feel that is right for me.
You are likely aware of witch trials in centuries past. People weren't and still aren't sure what witches did. Some people were folk healers and used herbs as medicine, like people today might have peppermint tea or use lavender to try and sleep. Most of it seemed to be through fear. Many people were convicted even though it was not clear if they even did anything of this sort.
Jesus came back to life, and there is the term 'holy spirit's. This seems a bit contradictory to me. Some of Christianity is good and makes sense, but I'm not happy personally with anyone going to hell/the devil who isn't a Christian. They may be a perfectly moral person and do good deeds, or it may even be a forbidden religion in their country or not the one that is accepted. And there are non practising Christians - and brought up as one of those I can't say my beliefs and actions are really any different now (I'm not sure what I'd class myself now - nothing in particular, but I am open to other religions and paths of life and I think this is healthier than being totally against it as the Bible says, or telling people they will go to hell which I would never do, because I think it is mean, it is just a belief, and it doesn't help them or you.)
Sometimes we look for signs and patterns just to make sense of things in our lives, even Christians. I don't know believe this is bad. I don't know if I believe in omens.
Witchcraft today is based on people thinking of an intent, something they want to improve themselves to make things better or even for things like world peace. They might write things down or chant it, similar to a prayer. Herbs represent things - sometimes things like health which makes sense due to their properties, like eucalyptus helping you breathe. Lighting a candle isn't that dissimilar to Christianity. In fact, many Pagan traditions were adopted by the church to persuade them to convert.
I don't see what's wrong with some of the forms of 'fortune telling' you mentioned, personally although I'm not a devout Christian, I was raised one (not Catholic). Some are just meant as a guide or your own interpretation. Much is out of curiosity. They do have their rules of conduct like usually not telling someone something really bad. I've been warned about Ouija boards. I'm not sure about contacting the dead personally. I don't know if I believe in it, but it's not something I feel that is right for me.
You are likely aware of witch trials in centuries past. People weren't and still aren't sure what witches did. Some people were folk healers and used herbs as medicine, like people today might have peppermint tea or use lavender to try and sleep. Most of it seemed to be through fear. Many people were convicted even though it was not clear if they even did anything of this sort.
Jesus came back to life, and there is the term 'holy spirit's. This seems a bit contradictory to me. Some of Christianity is good and makes sense, but I'm not happy personally with anyone going to hell/the devil who isn't a Christian. They may be a perfectly moral person and do good deeds, or it may even be a forbidden religion in their country or not the one that is accepted. And there are non practising Christians - and brought up as one of those I can't say my beliefs and actions are really any different now (I'm not sure what I'd class myself now - nothing in particular, but I am open to other religions and paths of life and I think this is healthier than being totally against it as the Bible says, or telling people they will go to hell which I would never do, because I think it is mean, it is just a belief, and it doesn't help them or you.)
Sometimes we look for signs and patterns just to make sense of things in our lives, even Christians. I don't know believe this is bad. I don't know if I believe in omens.
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amethyst1 · 36-40, F
@ImagineThat: This looks like it could be a long deep conversation! I will reply to some now as my concentration is not the best at the moment, so I will do what I can.
How did you quote me by the way? I pressed the quote buttons but it just came up saying <quote><quote> or something and not sure if it actually came up with anything!
I'm just copy and pasting.
Imagine that says: Let's take a look at this. Magi means "wise men". There were not just three magi, as often depicted in early Christian art (actually, Matthew does not tell us how many there were), nor are they Babylonian astrologers or Persian Zoroastrians, as other early traditions held.
Some practice astrology as a way of practicing divination or sorcery – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future through self-invented means (e.g. horoscopes) – or interpreting omens – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future on the basis of abnormal phenomena. But not all astrology falls into these categories. It is God who created the sun, moon, and stars, put them in place, and set them in motion. He even says that he put them there “for signs” (Gen 1:14)
My response: I hadn't heard of the theory of them possibly being Zoroastrians, even if untrue. Interesting to know.
A book I read said Magi comes from the word Magic. The word looks similar so it makes sense. I was told when I was younger and learning about Christmas through a Christian school that Magi meant wise men, too. Your source is the Bible. My source on it coming from the word magic - another factual book.
Astrology is a form of prediction so some Christians might disapprove. Others don't. Things in the Bible are interpreted differently but different people or are taking more seriously by different sects of the faith.
Imagine that says "'He even says he put them there for signs'".The warning is that we do not replace the Creator with the created, or the source with the sign.
I can understand more now why people in centuries past thought an eclipse (which they did not understand) meant the end of the world was coming. Indeed it could have been quite frightening, not knowing what was actually happening with the sun and moon. So what does it mean when there is an eclipse? If the moon is orangey yellow? I only have scientific answers, but how are people meant to interpret it. We interpret it as we see best and in a way we can understand. I see you are referring to it as a way of saying that astrology isn't necessarily telling the future or 'sorcery', and I think perhaps what actually is 'sorcery', a rather old fashioned term, perhaps based on bias, needs to be defined, but astrology is trying to predict or guide the future really, at least in terms of horoscopes. I dont know how we know for certain that the wise men weren't astrologers. You can be wise and astrologers, or considered perhaps in those times, to be wise because of that. Your reasoning will, it looks, be based on what the Bible says since you have strong Christian faith but I don't know how we can know everything especially as some bits to be included in the Bible were left out and much of it was written centuries later. And since it wasn't written by Jesus himself there is going to be bias.
How did you quote me by the way? I pressed the quote buttons but it just came up saying <quote><quote> or something and not sure if it actually came up with anything!
I'm just copy and pasting.
Imagine that says: Let's take a look at this. Magi means "wise men". There were not just three magi, as often depicted in early Christian art (actually, Matthew does not tell us how many there were), nor are they Babylonian astrologers or Persian Zoroastrians, as other early traditions held.
Some practice astrology as a way of practicing divination or sorcery – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future through self-invented means (e.g. horoscopes) – or interpreting omens – attempting to learn God’s will or the truth or predict the future on the basis of abnormal phenomena. But not all astrology falls into these categories. It is God who created the sun, moon, and stars, put them in place, and set them in motion. He even says that he put them there “for signs” (Gen 1:14)
My response: I hadn't heard of the theory of them possibly being Zoroastrians, even if untrue. Interesting to know.
A book I read said Magi comes from the word Magic. The word looks similar so it makes sense. I was told when I was younger and learning about Christmas through a Christian school that Magi meant wise men, too. Your source is the Bible. My source on it coming from the word magic - another factual book.
Astrology is a form of prediction so some Christians might disapprove. Others don't. Things in the Bible are interpreted differently but different people or are taking more seriously by different sects of the faith.
Imagine that says "'He even says he put them there for signs'".The warning is that we do not replace the Creator with the created, or the source with the sign.
I can understand more now why people in centuries past thought an eclipse (which they did not understand) meant the end of the world was coming. Indeed it could have been quite frightening, not knowing what was actually happening with the sun and moon. So what does it mean when there is an eclipse? If the moon is orangey yellow? I only have scientific answers, but how are people meant to interpret it. We interpret it as we see best and in a way we can understand. I see you are referring to it as a way of saying that astrology isn't necessarily telling the future or 'sorcery', and I think perhaps what actually is 'sorcery', a rather old fashioned term, perhaps based on bias, needs to be defined, but astrology is trying to predict or guide the future really, at least in terms of horoscopes. I dont know how we know for certain that the wise men weren't astrologers. You can be wise and astrologers, or considered perhaps in those times, to be wise because of that. Your reasoning will, it looks, be based on what the Bible says since you have strong Christian faith but I don't know how we can know everything especially as some bits to be included in the Bible were left out and much of it was written centuries later. And since it wasn't written by Jesus himself there is going to be bias.
amethyst1 · 36-40, F
@ImagineThat: part 2
Answer: Jesus said it entices people to call upon the power of Satan and has nothing to do with peace, but the dark forces (demons) of this universe. If it were so innocent, God would not be so forcefully against it. He hates it, and demands we have nothing to do with it, in any way, shape, or form. It is HIS interpretation of it that counts. Not yours or mine. He makes the rules. He commands His followers to have nothing to do with it. We can't just ignore that and His wishes, nor trivialize it. If He says it's wrong, it's wrong. This includes "some forms" of fortune telling. It's not the lighting of the candle that is wrong, but the motive and purpose behind it.
Today, and certainly in the past few centuries (1800s+) Witches did and do not call upon the power of Satan. This is totally untrue. Read a book on Paganism, Witchcraft, Wicca (definitions are slightly different but NONE call upon Satan). You won't though, I suspect, because you think it is evil (I'm not meaning this in a harsh tone at all, just saying what I think to be true). The idea of God and Satan were brought about by Christianity so they certainly could not have 'called upon Satan' before then.
Little is known of Paganism in the past especially Witchcraft as it was forbidden and outlawed. What is known is Christians tried to convert Pagans by using much of their symbolism and adapting festivals throughout the year. What is also known is that Christians were fearful of Witches and that many were killed during Witchcraft trials in many countries. Some sources say the term Witch was not coined by people who may have had non Christian practises at all. Many were killed and there is no proof for some, what they did wrong.
It is certainly not all about the dark and demons! How can wishing someone peace, using herbs for healing an ailment be evil?!
God and Jesus wanted people to follow their way and their teachings and to believe that their way was the only way, and the way to salvation which is why people converted and tried to convert others. I think much of what is said about Witchcraft including in the Bible is due to fear, and many Christians also live in fear that they will do wrong.
I will continue at some point, if I feel like it.
I definitely don't want any arguments or anything.
Answer: Jesus said it entices people to call upon the power of Satan and has nothing to do with peace, but the dark forces (demons) of this universe. If it were so innocent, God would not be so forcefully against it. He hates it, and demands we have nothing to do with it, in any way, shape, or form. It is HIS interpretation of it that counts. Not yours or mine. He makes the rules. He commands His followers to have nothing to do with it. We can't just ignore that and His wishes, nor trivialize it. If He says it's wrong, it's wrong. This includes "some forms" of fortune telling. It's not the lighting of the candle that is wrong, but the motive and purpose behind it.
Today, and certainly in the past few centuries (1800s+) Witches did and do not call upon the power of Satan. This is totally untrue. Read a book on Paganism, Witchcraft, Wicca (definitions are slightly different but NONE call upon Satan). You won't though, I suspect, because you think it is evil (I'm not meaning this in a harsh tone at all, just saying what I think to be true). The idea of God and Satan were brought about by Christianity so they certainly could not have 'called upon Satan' before then.
Little is known of Paganism in the past especially Witchcraft as it was forbidden and outlawed. What is known is Christians tried to convert Pagans by using much of their symbolism and adapting festivals throughout the year. What is also known is that Christians were fearful of Witches and that many were killed during Witchcraft trials in many countries. Some sources say the term Witch was not coined by people who may have had non Christian practises at all. Many were killed and there is no proof for some, what they did wrong.
It is certainly not all about the dark and demons! How can wishing someone peace, using herbs for healing an ailment be evil?!
God and Jesus wanted people to follow their way and their teachings and to believe that their way was the only way, and the way to salvation which is why people converted and tried to convert others. I think much of what is said about Witchcraft including in the Bible is due to fear, and many Christians also live in fear that they will do wrong.
I will continue at some point, if I feel like it.
I definitely don't want any arguments or anything.
@amethyst1: Yes, I can see this can get long. Haha. Yes, being a follower of God, I only go by what His Word teaches. Yes, all I did was copy and paste your words into another reply box, then added my answers so you would know what I was answering. Here's why I go strictly by scripture:
Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"
Galatians 1:6 - "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel."
As for the Bible, God did not entrust His sacred Word to just anyone. He gave it Holy men of old. Huge difference.
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". II Peter 1:21.
In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which means “God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God,” but other scriptural passages support the basic premise of Scripture being inspired by God.
Even if people don't believe in the Bible, they can look at Jesus, alone, and know that He is God.
You and I know that anyone can make claims. There have been others who have claimed to be God. I could claim to be God, and you could claim to be God, but the question all of us must answer is, "What credentials do we bring to substantiate our claim?" In my case it wouldn't take you five minutes to disprove my claim. It probably wouldn't take too much more to dispose of yours. But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, he had the credentials to back up his claim. He said, "Even though you do not believe me, believe the evidence of the miracles, that you may learn and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."
There's nothing wrong with using herbs for healing. God's Word even says to do that. As food for the body. Jesus spoke of witchcraft, but not because He feared it. If He said it's wrong, that's good enough for me. I don't worship out of fear. The Lord said there is no fear in perfect love, which is his love. Yes, people go overboard and to the extreme. I just go strictly by what God says in His Word.
Satan worshippers have no qualms about letting people know they derive their power from, and worship Satan. God is the one that calls witchcraft evil. Look how strongly he is against any of that, from what I wrote in my original post. God is sinless. He has no evil in him, neither did he create evil. That was a choice made by Satan, to be evil. Scripture says evil was found in Satan.
There's nothing wrong with astrology. However, used in the wrong way, God is against it. @amethyst1:
Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"
Galatians 1:6 - "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel."
As for the Bible, God did not entrust His sacred Word to just anyone. He gave it Holy men of old. Huge difference.
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". II Peter 1:21.
In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which means “God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God,” but other scriptural passages support the basic premise of Scripture being inspired by God.
Even if people don't believe in the Bible, they can look at Jesus, alone, and know that He is God.
You and I know that anyone can make claims. There have been others who have claimed to be God. I could claim to be God, and you could claim to be God, but the question all of us must answer is, "What credentials do we bring to substantiate our claim?" In my case it wouldn't take you five minutes to disprove my claim. It probably wouldn't take too much more to dispose of yours. But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, he had the credentials to back up his claim. He said, "Even though you do not believe me, believe the evidence of the miracles, that you may learn and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."
There's nothing wrong with using herbs for healing. God's Word even says to do that. As food for the body. Jesus spoke of witchcraft, but not because He feared it. If He said it's wrong, that's good enough for me. I don't worship out of fear. The Lord said there is no fear in perfect love, which is his love. Yes, people go overboard and to the extreme. I just go strictly by what God says in His Word.
Satan worshippers have no qualms about letting people know they derive their power from, and worship Satan. God is the one that calls witchcraft evil. Look how strongly he is against any of that, from what I wrote in my original post. God is sinless. He has no evil in him, neither did he create evil. That was a choice made by Satan, to be evil. Scripture says evil was found in Satan.
There's nothing wrong with astrology. However, used in the wrong way, God is against it. @amethyst1:
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@halflight: I only delete when I feel a message was rude. I thought yours was. I didn't like your language. If you had posted respectfully, I would have left it. Magi means "wise men". There were not just three magi, as often depicted in early Christian art (actually, Matthew does not tell us how many there were), nor are they Babylonian astrologers or Persian Zoroastrians, as other early traditions held.
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beckychandler · F
I think they are searching.
beckychandler · F
SW-User
IF one believe in the bible and god
besides, the bible do say they( mediumship, channeling, witchcraft [Wicca], occultism, psychic, fortune telling, tarot cards, reading tea leaves, etc.)
do exist though
and gives them some credibility
besides, the bible do say they( mediumship, channeling, witchcraft [Wicca], occultism, psychic, fortune telling, tarot cards, reading tea leaves, etc.)
do exist though
and gives them some credibility
Your reply makes no sense at all. Who said I'm for WICA? Read my article. @Carla1951:
@Carla1951: Yes, he is.
butterfly1013 · 26-30, F
I agree with you and I am christian as well, but I do have a gift and it wasn't my choice to get into it. It just happened and it's actually helping a handful of people. I don't use evil/demonic spirit. I do happen to believe that this gift for me came directly from God. What I don't do are spells, witch craft and that sort of thing. I just use it the way I feel like God would want me too. So, far I haven't been wrong about anything that I have predicted. Not trynna justify this, but some people can't control this type of thing. I am just kind of confused, cause this wasn't my choice.
parttimelisa · 61-69, M
And to say that the ONLY way into Heaven is through Jesus is disturbing. That would mean that my friends that are Jewish, Hindu,etc are doomed to Hell? I read that God "created man (all people) in his image". If this is a fact, then why would God create entire groups of people just to sentence them to Hell??
I've been told that I am going to Hell because I teach Yoga. I guess I'm in double trouble because I'm also a Crossdresser.
Former Christian and Music Minister for 25 years.....all for naught?
God created me as I am, did he make a mistake? No, because Christian scripture says the God is infallible.
Too many contradictions in Christanity.
God and I are still in fellowship even if I'm told I'm not worthy of his Kingdom.
Love and Smiles to ALL.
I've been told that I am going to Hell because I teach Yoga. I guess I'm in double trouble because I'm also a Crossdresser.
Former Christian and Music Minister for 25 years.....all for naught?
God created me as I am, did he make a mistake? No, because Christian scripture says the God is infallible.
Too many contradictions in Christanity.
God and I are still in fellowship even if I'm told I'm not worthy of his Kingdom.
Love and Smiles to ALL.
Hardly disturbing. Jesus is the one who said it. ALL people have access to heaven, no matter what their color, race, or religion. John 3:16 alone tells us that. He died for the world. For all. When he said all He meant all. Whoever told you that you were going to hell because you teach Yoga, is wrong. I'm very sorry this happened to you. I don't make the rules for what God considers to be sin. It is people who categorize sin, not God. Sin is sin in His eyes. God doesn't hate people. He hates sin because it separates us from him. God is love personified. He loves you, just as much as he loves anyone on this planet. God is perfect and sinless. He does not make mistakes. None of us were a mistake. None of us, because of our sin, not who we are, are worthy of heaven. That is, sin is described as "missing the mark"...disobedience to God. So that's exactly why Jesus died on the cross, for which we should all be grateful, because if it wasn't for him, we'd all go to hell. Something to think about.
@hunkydory: I think you better define "right path". Because God said, "There's a way that seems right unto man, but the end thereof, is death." Proverbs 14:12. Meaning spiritual death. So clearly, not just any path will do.
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 51-55, M
I notice you didn't lift a finger to say there's nothing wrong with the occult--just a lot of tu quoque
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
Yes, the Christmas tree is a pagan ritual. I have no idea why they do that. We are not to esteem one day over the other, but we could pick this to death. I think God is more concerned that our pastors are preaching the true gospel, rather than focusing on a tree. @amethyst1:
Carla1951 · 70-79, F
Due to the unfamiliarity of these words, I have to ask, are you familiar with the name YHWH. I only ask 'Sister'
What has this to do with my question? Of course I'm familiar with the name YHWH. What's your point?
Carla1951 · 70-79, F
@ImagineThat: I used to 'study,' Your words were familiar. I meant no degradation.
@Carla1951: Oh, I see. Sorry.
This message was deleted by its author.
Who are you addressing here? I don't know where you are coming up with the questions. What you've asked has absolutely nothing to do with the question I posted. Who said anything about sexual invite??? Where did that come from? Totally off the wall. Not my liking? Wrong forum? Everything you mentioned has nothing to do with this forum.
TheWombRaider · 26-30, M
Stop preaching shit. I wish religion would just fuck off already. You worshipers need to stop wasting your life on some non existent being.
@parttimelisa: Thank you so much. I needed that this morning.
beckychandler · F
No one really believes that or they wouldn't get so angry about it. It's not like the Church or Christianity is some powerful force in today's secular world. But for some reason it really gets under the skin of some people. Why do you think that is? Maybe because the devil is not an atheist???
@beckychandler: I have found they aren't really angry at me or Christianity, most of them. They are angry at life, and are desperate for answers.