What is the greatest form of humanism? [Spirituality & Religion]

How so?

@beckychandler: do you really want to go there?

@shadowplay: absolutely, I don't think you are very clever or informed

i may not be either,but i don't live my life based on a book of fairy tails. ok 100's of thousands of little children molested by catholic priests and covered up by the ones in charge for decades . that's pretty hypocritical if you ask me. i don't think your very tolerant of people that don't bow down to your corrupt religion

@shadowplay: How old are you really? I ask not only because I notice you have had some trouble deciding, but because you argue like an adolescent. If you want to discuss this intelligently I am eager. But I am not interested in discussing it with an angry petulant child

@beckychandler: then don't look in the mirror.my age has nothing to do with it .i warned you didn't i?i asked if you really wanted to go there . facts are facts. don't hate me for telling the truth. you go right on living in denial . i'm angry?yet your calling me names ? grow up

First of all, the Church is comprised of sinners --that is a given -- it is basic dogma. I go to confession once a month, the Pope goes at least once a week. So I am not really interested in you pointing out the bad behavior of individuals. What I am interested in is supporting evidence that "it" has acted hypocritically --what do you mean by that?

@beckychandler: @beckychandler: lol are you serious???? wow . covering up child abuse in the name of god ,for gods sake! preaching goodness and love while monsters roam the halls of the church!!!!!

Yes, these priests and the bishops who covered up were monsters -- but that is not the Church -- it is individuals in the Church during a very brief period in the Church's life. The Catholic Church has been around over 2000 years -- its mission statement is the betterment of mankind -- it has done wonderful things --it runs the biggest non-profit hospital system in the world today --in fact it invented hospitals, as it invented Universities -indeed it built Western Civilization e.g. http://amzn.to/2kyxubY (also a video series check it on YouTube) The very fact that the Church has existed despite pedophile priests, hypocritical bishops, bad popes makes a strong case that Christ knew what he was talking about when he said it would last until the end of the age and withstand the gates of hell. If it was a mere human institution it would be gone by now --but it has out lasted empires and nations.

none of that makes up for the continued systematic destruction of children! it lasts because people put it above the safety of the children ,if they can't protect the children then what good are they really? what price innocence? it wasn't just a few bad priests . oh well the thousands of children are just the price for glory? i'm not dissing you or your faith,but don't try to justify what the catholic church has done.not preists ,not popes. the whole system. and they used good people like you to become so powerful that they are invincible .you are aware that the abuse is ongoing right?

There is not "continued systematic destruction of children" What do you mean by that?

And I don't care about you criticizing the Church (and I prefer not to use the word "faith"-- that implies it is all about irrational belief in revelation --that is not the case at all--from the beginning the Hellenic thought was incorporated and it truly is the oldest intellectual tradition in the West --on which all others are built)-- just do it rationally with knowledge -- and you make a better case anyway.

Gone are the great intellectual atheist giants like Bertrand Russell and Nietzsche -- whose critiques have helped the Church grow in response -- Pope Benedict XVI is a great student of Nietzsche But now there are just hacks like Dawkins. Of course my hope is that if you learned enough it might spark something in your soul or mind --but I will settle for honest criticism --and there is PLENTY of that to go around.

Despite the Pope’s apologies to the victims, many are skeptical that any real change has occurred. Peter Saunders, a member of the Pontifical Commission, says that it’s a “token body” exercising in “smoke and mirrors.” Saunders is currently on a leave of absence from the group while he considers whether or not to continue with an effort that he says won’t help children stay safe from abusive priests. He said in an interview with International Public Radio, “I very quickly realized that I’m surrounded by a group of lovely, kind, caring people whose primary loyalty is to the church.” He went on to say, “The Church is basically corrupt.” According to him, new priests are still being taught that they are not required to report cases of child abuse by priests to the police. Also, after a year of investigating, GlobalPost reports that several priests accused of abuse in the United States and Europe have been transferred to South America where they continue to serve as priests in poor, remote parishes. Although Pope Francis is planning a visit to South America, International Public Radio reports that many are beginning to see his efforts to combat the sexual abuse within the church as “more cosmetic than concrete.”

I don't know where you are grabbing your material, but it's better than before. There is much LOUD criticism within the Church that not enough has been done --and it is coming from the most conservative/traditional wings of the Church, with which I most identify. Google Phil Lawler and his book "Faithful Departed" and ongoing articles --that is just one example --I only recommend him because he does a good job of explaining what happened, why and that much more needs to be done. I am going to find you a review of the book to look at. It is written for a Catholic audience and is on an extremely conservative Catholic website --so I apologize for the imagery and what not which might make you uncomfortable:http://catholicism.org/faithful-departed-review.html

it sounds like a hard read ,i have heard the details from a number of survivors several of which i knew personally ,two of them sadly committed suicide,how did the church help them? if i told you the church secretly murdered thousands of children .then covered it up what would be your reaction? because in essence this is exactly what happened

I just want you to see that their pleas are heard and it is coming not from Pope Francis's liberal wing, but rather the most conservative. I've got to run --I have honestly enjoyed this dialogue with you. Thank you! I am going to send you a friend invite --please accept it and I would like to continue hearing from you and discussing this or whatever. And please try to wade through that review You will learn something -- and one thing I hope is that many of us do feel their pain and are trying to atone and make changes -- you are right -- an apology is not enough!

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