Science Just Keeps Pointing To God

@MoveAlong Unless you are Dawkins who has staked his entire career on denying God.

@hippyjoe1955 Dawkins only uses science to argue that evolution is a valid theory and an alternative view to the belief that man was created by other means. He also points out the logical problems with god's perceived omniscience and omnipotents.

He cannot scientifically disprove the existence of the Easter bunny either but he can put up a pretty good argument of how money was found in place of the child's pulled tooth. Hint it wasn't magic.

@MoveAlong Dawkins is not being a scientist. He is a evangelical atheist that hides behind his credentials. However let us be perfectly honest. In school you were never taught the theory or Intelligent Design because 'Big Science' said it was not a valid theory. So now that the theory of evolution is being abandoned by even those who once believed in it has our education system figured it out that on the basis we need to exclude intelligent design we must now exclude the theory of evolution?

@MoveAlong That's an interesting comparison between the Easter Bunny and God, but they aren't equivalent. The existence of God is a deeply personal and philosophical question that has been debated for centuries. While science can provide insights into the natural world, it's not necessarily equipped to prove or disprove the existence of God.

Regarding Dawkins, he's a prominent voice in the discussion about science and faith, and many people find his arguments thought-provoking. However, his views are also subject to critique and debate. Perhaps instead of focusing on who can mount the most convincing argument, we should explore the complexities of faith and science in a way that shows mutual respect for each other's views.

@LadyGrace Faith has no place in scientific argument. Belief in something does not make it true. I scientists may have faith that he's experiment will work but having faith won't make a bit of difference.

@MoveAlong Get serious. I quit being an atheist many many years ago when I realised I didn't have enough faith to remain one. As a process design engineer I became informed about the processes going on in a cell and quickly realised that the nonsense I had been espousing since high school was extremely thin gruel. It was then that I sought out an intelligent designer and found just such a one described in some ancient text I had discarded years ago. The funny thing is the more I look at the processes as more and more discoveries are made every month the more convinced I am of an Intelligent Designer behind it all. Simply too complex to be otherwise.

@MoveAlong
The Bible includes science in its contents. I understand your point about scientific inquiry relying on evidence and testing. Faith and science operate in different realms. For many people, faith is about trust, relationship, and personal experience. It's not necessarily about proving scientific truths, but about finding meaning, purpose, and guidance in life. While faith may not change empirical facts, it can profoundly impact how we understand and navigate the world. Faith, according to the Bible and my own personal faith experiences, is meant to prepare all for eternity and nothing is more important, as God wanted to make sure that we spend eternity in the right place. His mission was to show us the way so that we wouldn't have to guess how to get to heaven, and so he taught us how to prepare our hearts and lives for our final journey. God is not our enemy. It is sin that condemns us to death and places it on us. Christ came to redeem us from the power of sin and set us free by forgiving our sins so that we are prepared for heaven. That's how much he loved us, and loves us now. Many realize that this is something that we cannot afford to get wrong as scripture confirms that there are no second chances when it comes to the spiritual world and guidelines to make sure we get to heaven. We certainly cannot drag sin into heaven on our heels or it would not even be heaven. It is God's desire that none in the world miss heaven. His love for us is immeasurable.

@MoveAlong Faith makes all the difference in the world. It determines where we spend eternity. God said so in His Word, that He did not leave us to guess how to get to heaven.

I noticed you are drawing a distinction between the methodologies of science and faith, highlighting that scientific truth relies on empirical evidence and testing, whereas faith relies on belief.

Differences in methodologies don't necessarily mean faith has no place in understanding the world. While faith may not be a suitable method for scientific inquiry, it can still have value in other areas of life, such as personal relationships, morality, or understanding the human experience. This world is not just made up of material things we can see. According to scripture, we are exposed to both a physical and spiritual realm. I can testify to that in my experience with receiving the Holy Spirit which comes from the spiritual world. Thousands have experienced the same. And nothing we knew to conjure up. This was God keeping his promise from His Word to indwell believers upon receiving salvation by grace, through Christ.

While faith in the outcome of an experiment isn't what makes it true, a scientist's faith or confidence in their theory can motivate them to pursue a line of inquiry.

@LadyGrace Thanks but you can spare me the sermon. I've heard it all. Please don't take that as me being rude or disrespectful. I literally have heard it all and hearing it over and over again is not going to change anything. .

If faith works for you good. To me it has no bering on reality.

@MoveAlong Your faith is very clear to everyone. You are as closed minded as any other fundamentalist. Your belief is always true and you are not about to change regardless of the evidence which even more strangely you won't even look at. Too Funny!!!!!

@hippyjoe1955 LOL, what is this evidence you speak of? I thought it was all about faith.

@MoveAlong Why would I cast pearls before swine. Your mind is made up and nothing is going to change it. Even if I mentioned the doctor with the most nano technology parents in the world who is utterly convinced of intelligent design. Or one of preeminent philosophy of science proponents who is utterly convinced of the veracity of Intelligent Design you would just scoff and say they are not real scientists. There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

@hippyjoe1955 Good question. Why would you?

I don't know what Doctor you're speaking about. Does any of his or her patents include anything that is so complex and elegant in design that it can only be attributed to god?

Because discovering things that are elegant, complex and beyond our understanding are commonplace in science. That doesn't mean that they must have been created by god.

@MoveAlong And it will remain so until you do some of your own research. Your closed mind is very unbecoming. I kind of find it funny actually because I used to be just like you. Atheism was the answer - until it wasn't. I spent a few years working on extraction oil from dirt. Seems very simple but always room for improvement. I noted the size and complexity of the plant we were designing. The conveyors to the cokers to the cooling towers. Extraction and removal of waste material. Always looking for better chemicals to use and then how to get the chemicals out of the product. Great fun. But something kept nagging me. We were busy doing this simple thing and yet I noted how much more complex a single living cell was than any machine we could ever hope to build. Slowly but slowly the penny dropped. Nature was by design not by accident.

@hippyjoe1955 Because a cell is complex and beyond our present ability to create one in the lab is no reason to attribute to god. Humans have always credited things they didn't understand to god. The sun, the moon, the stars, eclipses, famine, earthquakes and on and on.

It's true. I am an atheist in the sense that I don't believe in the god of the bible. I like probably most people, have no idea how the universe came to be. It could be intentionally designed. I do not however accept the notion that a being waved a wand and made everything happen.

@MoveAlong If not God then what? There is 10E17 seconds in 13,000,000 billion years. There are 10 E 90 atoms in the known universe. Just to get all the right parts in the right place without the information needed to operate have odds of 10 E 42,000 One part out of place and nothing works. Finally where does information come from? Each cell on the planet is following intricate and detailed information encoded in the DNA. Where did that information come from?

@hippyjoe1955 You keep positing that because the universe is complicated that it must be god's handiwork. One of the reasons early humans assigned creation to god was because they didn't understand things like the sun, the earth, the moon and the stars. Now that we see how much more there really is and are beginning to understand how they work we are still doing the same dang thing.

The universe is complicated for sure but it doesn't mean that it will always be completely beyond our understanding.

@MoveAlong Ever heard of the concept of irreducible complexity?

@hippyjoe1955 I had to google it. I have come across the concept I didn't remember or know what it is called. Is it your position that the concept of irreducible complexity proves that the universe was intelligently designed.

And why would a being with that kind intellect and capabilities drown nearly everyone on earth because he was pissed? That's just one of a thousand such questions that believers in the god of the bible should be asking themselves.

@MoveAlong So where does information come from? Please answer. Is it just a random thing or does it require intelligence?

@hippyjoe1955 Answer mine first. But do it tomorrow. I'm outta here for the night.

@MoveAlong
I wasn't offering a sermon. I was simply sharing. As I mentioned before, my intention isn't to force my beliefs on others, but rather to share my personal experience and perspective.

I understand that you've heard a lot about the Bible, but I want to respectfully suggest that there's value in reading it for yourself. It's not about agreeing with everything but rather about gaining a deeper understanding of the perspectives and insights it offers.

The Bible is right when it says "seek and ye shall find," but people will not find the answers until they are willing to examine them. If we're open to exploring different perspectives, we might find some helpful insights.

Further, you've mentioned that you're looking for answers to some big questions. The Bible actually addresses those topics directly. For example, it provides a framework for understanding the world and our place in it. It offers guidance on how to live, how to find purpose, and what to expect in life and beyond. Would you like to explore some of those passages together? What do you think might be missing from your current understanding that the Bible could potentially offer? Is there a particular aspect of the Bible that you're skeptical about, or is it more about the idea of exploring religious texts in general?

What do you think is the most compelling argument for or against the idea of intelligent design?

How do you think we can balance our desire to understand the world through science with the possibility that there may be aspects that are beyond our comprehension?

@MoveAlong

That's a fair point. Science and faith aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Many people find that their understanding of the natural world and its complexities actually deepens their appreciation for a creator. What are your thoughts on the relationship between science and spirituality?

@MoveAlong Well lets use an analogy to explain how the owner can do with His possession what every he wants. A number of years ago I was driving down the highway. I was passing truck after truck full of dead chickens. Then I remembered that there was a poultry farm nearby that had an outbreak of avian flu. The solution was to kill all the chickens on that farm. I wonder if the chickens questioned the morality of the farmer. He fed them yesterday and then killed them today. So yes God can do with His creation what ever He wants. He created them. He has been sustaining them so it is entirely within His prerogative. What I find funny is facing the parent with the paddle and telling said parent that he would be immortal if he gave you a spanking. You being the brat have no claim on morality.

@MoveAlong One final note and then I will leave this to others. A good friend of mine has been doing medical research for many years now. Her speciality is kidneys. She told me that as a young researcher she tried to understand the function of a kidney through the lens of evolution. The organ 'evolved' therefore how can she best deal with its malfunctions. Such a mindset didn't get her very far and so she switched to think of how it was designed to function. She says she had several immediate break throughs in the research as a result of that simple mind set change. As my dear old dad used to say about a machine "Well they had to put it together somehow". as he was trying to get a balky machine to work again. He succeeded based on that simple precept. If I can understand the design I can fix the problem. If I am just staring at an assortment of parts the machine will remain broken.