SOME EXAMPLES THAT PROVE THAT THE EARTH IS NOT ROTATING AND ORBITING THE SUN...

Example #1
If the earth is rotating from west to east at 1,000 miles per hour and the
average speed of a passenger airliner is about 600 miles per hour, then
a flight from NYC to LA would take less than an hour and we know that the
normal flight time is about 3 hours. And if the flight was from LA to NYC,
then it would never arrive because the earth is rotating 400 miles per hour
faster than the plane can fly.

Example #2
If the earth were rotating at 1,000 miles per hour, then all the clouds would
be moving right along with the earth because of the earth's drag pulling
the clouds along with it and all at the same direction. But most often we see
clouds criss-crossing across the sky and moving in opposite directions.

Book of Enoch chapter 2
1 Observe ye everything that takes place in the heaven, how they do not
change their orbits ( the sun and the stars are orbiting the earth; the
earth is not orbiting the sun ) and the luminaries which are in the heaven,
how they all rise and set ( they are going around the earth )...

Chapter 78
3 These are the the two great luminaries ( the sun and the moon ): their
circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and the size of the
circumference of both is alike ( this is indicating that either they have the same orbit around the earth or that they are the same size ).

Chapter 41
5 and I saw the chambers of the sun and the moon, whence they proceed
( once again it is they that are moving, not the earth ), whither they come again, and their glorious return, and how one is superior to the other, and their stately orbit ( the sun and the moon are orbiting the earth; the earth is not orbiting the sun )...
6 And first the sun goes forth and traverses his path ( it's the sun that is moving, not the earth ) according to the commandment of the Lord of Spirits, and mighty is His name for ever and ever.

May YHWH, Christ
and the Holy Spirit
Bless you,
Scott

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Heartlander · 80-89, M

Re Example #1 ... YES, that would be true if the plane has a 1,000 mph tailwind. However, the air above the earth usually rotates with the earth. It gets dragged along with the turf, and the airplane flies relative to that air.

There's jet streams, fast moving air at high altitudes, and while they are fast, it's more like 100 miles an hour, with the fastest at times being maybe 200 miles per hour. Also they don't always go in the direction of one's destination, so usually you get but a piece of the tailwind.

Interesting that thin air and whatever it holds submits to gravity, but that's another discussion :)

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
A plane needs a head wind in order to give lift to the wings so it can
fly; if the plane was flying from LA to NYC at 600 miles per hour but
the air being dragged by the earth's rotation is moving at 1000 mph
traveling east, then there would be no head wind and the plane couldn't
fly, because the air from the earth's rotation is moving 400 mph faster
than the plane. Think about it!

And like I said in Ex # 2; if the all the air were moving in the same
direction do to the earth's rotation, then we wouldn't see clouds
crisscrossing in different directions and we see that all the time.
Think about that one too!

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel Not really. To get lift, planes create their own needed headwind or wind over the cambered surfaces of the plane. Wing mounted propellers send extra wind over the wings and create lift, also those props bite into the air much like a rotating household fan tries to creep forward. Jets create forward thrust and when it moves the plane fast enough the lift created by the air passing over the wings exceeds the force of gravity and the plane becomes airborne. Remember, the air moves with the earth, and the jet taking off moves faster than the earth, once it's moving 100+ mph faster than the slower air it's passing through the airplane starts flying.

High winds blowing over the wings of an airplane just parked with the parking brake set can make a plane fly. That's why most airplanes have mooring hooks and are chained to the ground when parked for more than a few hours. A 1,000 mph wind would sling even a parked 747 like a frisbee if the 747 wasn't chained down. Thankfully we never have 1,000 mph winds. But even 200 mph surface winds can wreck havoc on parked airplanes. Ever see newsreels of airports after being swept over by a tornado?

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
If the earth is rotating at 1000 mph and dragging the air with it at the same speed, then we WOULD have1000 mph winds. And you didn't address the
crisscrossing clouds.

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
And even if the plane could fly, it would never make it to NYC because
the earth would be rotating 400 mph faster than the plane and the
plane would never catch up with the earth.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel Well we do have 1,000 mph winds, relative to the universe, probably closer to 100,000 mph winds, so if an airplane simply climbed to an altitude of 1,000,000 feet then it could .... Oh NOO!! wait. there is no air at 1,000,000,000 feet altitude. Airplanes need air to create lift. No air, no lift. No lift, no flight. Airplanes can only fly within earth's domain. When viewed from beyond, everything on earth is moving at 1,000 mpjh, or much faster when viewed from distant stars.

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
You are making no sense and are not addressing my points. Go back and
carefully reread my post.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel Your example has some value. There are old pilot tales of ground winds being faster than than an airplane's speed, especially slow, light airplanes flying into coastal areas. Flying a final approach speed of 70 mph with a surface head wind of 80 mph, and the plane is actually moving backwards, relative to the runway.

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
You are still not addressing my points; like I said, the plane would never
make it to NYC because the earth is rotating 400 mph faster than the plane
is flying.

And what about those crisscrossing clouds?

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel Imagine being on a train. The time it takes to walk from the club car to the dining car would be the same, regardless of how fast the train was moving. Someone else could be walking in the opposite direction, and likewise the time it took to walk from the dining room to the club car would be independent of the speed of the train. If someone in the dining room was smoking a cigar, the movement of the smoke would likewise be independent of the speed of the train.

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
This comment has nothing to do with my examples which are very
logical and clear.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel You are failing to understand that LA, NYC are both rotating at with the earth at 1,000 mph. It's like both the club car and the dining room on the train moving along at 70 mph.

As I recall, Mexico doesn't switch to daylight savings time while Texas does. It may be different now, but one could leave Mexico now, walk across the bridge and arrive arrive in Texas 55 minutes ago :)

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
It doesn't matter if LA and NYC are both rotating at 1000 mph; NYC would
STILL be moving away from the plane at 400 mph! AND WHAT ABOUT THE
CRISSCROSSING CLOUDS?

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
And if LA were rotating eastward at 1000 mph then as soon as the plane
took off, LA would pass it and stay ahead of it at 400 mph!

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel The crisscrossing clouds are like the cigar smoke in the dining room, they drift based based on their influencing forces, and unlike the airplanes, they have neither rudder nor other control devices to determine their direction of movement.

Clouds tend to move with pressure patterns, which in turn are moved with surface temperatures. Airplanes tend to move in straight lines between departure and destination, and can do so because control surfaces can be adjusted by the pilot or autopilot so the plane moves as directed.

To follow your contention, the person in the club car trying to walk to a dining room may never get there because the train is moving at 70 miles an hour while the poor exhausted man is walking at but 1 mile an hour. Even if he starts running and gets up to 5 mph, in your example he would never make it to the dining room car.

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
The cigar smoke is in an enclosed environment, so there would be no air
movement to effect the smoke. The clouds are in the atmosphere and if
that atmosphere were traveling at 1000 mph in one direction, then the
clouds would move right along with it and wouldn't crisscross.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel The earth is a closed system.

ArcAngel · 61-69, M

@Heartlander
That is the first true statement that you have made so far.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@ArcAngel

Well thanks, Arc!

FWIW, gate to gate time between LA and NYC, is between 5 and a half and six hours, depending on weather, winds, routing, traffic delays, time of day, etc.