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Belief Follows Truth

The Truth: 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

The idea that the universe began with a big bang is firmly entrenched in the minds of millions of Americans. But the so-called “science” isn’t nearly as settled as most people are led to believe. Many scientists—even atheistic, naturalistic ones—know there are big problems with the idea. And the new images from the James Webb Space Telescope haven’t helped those who cling to the big bang.
According to a news report quoting one physicist (who does not believe the big bang happened,
To everyone who sees them, the new James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) images of the cosmos are beautifully awe-inspiring. But to most professional astronomers and cosmologists, they are also extremely surprising—not at all what was predicted by theory. In the flood of technical astronomical papers published online since July 12, the authors report again and again that the images show surprisingly many galaxies, galaxies that are surprisingly smooth, surprisingly small and surprisingly old. Lots of surprises, and not necessarily pleasant ones. One paper’s title begins with the candid exclamation: “Panic!”
Why do the JWST’s images inspire panic among cosmologists? And what theory’s predictions are they contradicting? The papers don’t actually say. The truth that these papers don’t report is that the hypothesis that the JWST’s images are blatantly and repeatedly contradicting is the Big Bang Hypothesis that the universe began 14 billion years ago in an incredibly hot, dense state and has been expanding ever since. Since that hypothesis has been defended for decades as unquestionable truth by the vast majority of cosmological theorists, the new data is causing these theorists to panic. Answers In Genesis.

As predicted, the big bang never existed in the first place. Truth remains the truth, God, Yahweh, still lives and His Word is still truth. Everyone here knew this scientific truth would come. Praise the Lord for His established truth.

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ElwoodBlues · M

What is the TRUTH about the age of the Earth, sun, galaxy, etc? How can we find out??

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CLOCKS

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Visit any limestone cave. Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 10 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years. And close examination of cross sections shows the year by year layering (where rainfall is seasonal). These stalactites can be found all over the world. The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating.

Tree rings are clocks. The oldest living tree goes back about 4800 years. But wood from dead trees can contain records of volcanic events, thus extending the record back much farther.

Originally developed for climate science, the method is now an invaluable tool for archaeologists, who can track up to 13,000 years of history using tree ring chronologies for over 4,000 sites on six continents.

The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating (establishing age by measuring ratios of radioactive vs stable isotopes).

Seasonal snowfall on glaciers accumulates to form countable layers. Greenland ice sheet layers can be counted back about 110,000 years. The ages are corroborated by radiometric dating. Other glaciers go back as far as 700,000 years, but on those the older data is mostly radiometric dating.

Salt flows from rocks into lakes and the ocean. If no salt left the ocean, that would give an age of 50 million to 70 million years. However, various geologic processes cause salt to leave the ocean at about the rate it's entering, so 50 million to 70 million years becomes a minimum estimate of the age of the earth.

Layering of sedimentary rocks - such as in the Grand Canyon - forms a series of clocks. These layers correspond to different stages in the evolution of life on the planet. The layers can be dated by positional order (bottom layer formed first), sedimentation rate, age of fossils found in the layer, and of course, radiometric dating. There are five main isotope pairs used for dating sedimentary rocks as well as the 'fissile track' method; you can read about it all here:
https://australian.museum/learn/minerals/shaping-earth/radioactive-dating/

Then there's all the fossils of extinct animals found in the rock layers. They're not exactly a clock, but they are an indicator of the vast amounts of time over which evolution occurs.

Of course outer space offers many clocks. Accumulation of craters on airless bodies like the Moon forms a clock. Shells of glowing gas left over from novas and supernovas form clocks (the Lambda Orionis Ring is about 1 million years old). The redshift of light from galaxies billions of light years away form clocks. The Hubble expansion of the universe forms a clock. The frequency shift of big bang radiation to form the cosmic microwave background is a clock.

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???

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GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M

@ElwoodBlues

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.

Your world views are not science, Elwood, nor are is the art work you provided.

ElwoodBlues · M

@GodSpeed63 I'm not so sure I should take you as an authority on what is and isn't science.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???

GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M

@ElwoodBlues

I'm not so sure I should take you as an authority on what is and isn't science.

Then take my God, Yahweh, on it since He's its has the ultimate authority on science since He's its Author.

ElwoodBlues · M

@GodSpeed63 Has your God, Yahweh, admitted to hiding those dinosaur bones in the rocks about 6000 years ago? If not, what's the explanation for all those bones much older than 65 million years??

spjennifer · 56-60, T

@ElwoodBlues Butt, but, Noah's Ark! 🤪

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer
❤️ Talking about Noah...

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

God loves you, and so do I 🙂

spjennifer · 56-60, T

@Carazaa If you believe so strongly in Noah's Ark, please explain how he collected Polar Bears from the Arctic and Kangaroos from Australia when he didn't even know of their existence then?

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer Don't assume too much that can't be proven. Change happens fast, not millions of years, even if it appears to be old. An animal adjusts to its habitat. Corona virus is a good example. There were animals on the ark and bears and other animals adjusted to its habitat after God separated the continents because of people's arrogance in Genesis 11

spjennifer · 56-60, T

@Carazaa What then of the Platypus?

"The platypus is the sole living representative or monotypic taxon of its family and genus"

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer Very good! How to explain this. Listen up, could it be they categorized animals wrong? Yes, it could! Like I said change happens much faster than some scientists say. That's a fact!

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer Maybe it is really a beaver 😂

Carazaa · F

@ElwoodBlues How can we find out? The Bible, THE BIBLE! God tells us exactly how old we are. He even told us that it is groaning because of our sins.

Carazaa · F

@ElwoodBlues

Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 10 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years.

They assume that they grow at a constant rate, but they don't! This is an assumption! Their assumptions are wrong, why? Because the atmosphere change and we can't look at something and assume the past unless we know the atmosphere then, and we don't! Instead of asking why would God put deceptive clocks, ask why you are assuming things that contradict Gods word? He gave us every family name from Adam to Jesus. That's 4000 years exactly, and Jesus was born 2022 years ago.

spjennifer · 56-60, T

@Carazaa

Maybe it is really a beaver

Ummm, no, it's a Platypus, nothing to do with the beaver, 2 different species, the Platypus is a Mammal, the Beaver is a rodent 🥴

ElwoodBlues · M

@Carazaa Just to be clear here, I am NOT arguing against existence or belief in God. I am only arguing against literal interpretation of the "7 day" creation. I have friends who are accomplished scientists and devout Christians; science is NOT inconsistent with Christianity. However, I think science and the literal "6000 years since the 7 day creation" are at odds.

Look, the Bible also mentions "the four corners of the Earth" and "the ends of the Earth" multiple times. We take that to be figurative language, not a quadrilateral planet. "7 day creation" can equally be figurative.

There are many clocks; not just stalactites, not just tree rings, not just fossils, but supernova remnants in our galaxy and visible supernovas that occurred millions of years ago in galaxies hundreds of millions of light years away whose light is just reaching us now. Gravitational lensing shows us starlight from over a billion years ago. To assume science misinterprets all those different clocks - it's just too many assumptions.

Carazaa · F

@ElwoodBlues My friends come from four corners of the world to visit me too 🙂. It is a way of speaking. The Bible spoke of water in the heavens before the scientists did. The Bible is not wrong! It is always right, we misunderstand it.

Just to be clear here, I am NOT arguing against existence or belief in God. I am only arguing against literal interpretation of the "7 day" creation. I have friends who are accomplished scientists and devout Christians; science is NOT inconsistent with Christianity. However, I think science and the literal "6000 years since the 7-day creation" are at odds.

Science it definitely not inconsistent with Christianity, it only contradicts when science jumps to the wrong conclusions.

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer Platypus is a mammal, and so is the beaver 🙂

spjennifer · 56-60, T

@Carazaa No, sorry but the beaver is a rodent, not a mammal.

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer Not according to the government
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/platypus.html
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bes/article/348260

ElwoodBlues · M

@spjennifer The history of classification systems for living things is illuminating. The Linnaean classification system, still in use, is based on similarities in obvious physical traits. It consists of a hierarchy of taxa, from the kingdom to the species. It goes back to 1735 or so, more than 100 years before Darwin.

Evolutionists, in combination with paleontologists, interpreted the Linnaean system as a measure of relatedness of species and other taxa. Fossils found by paleontologists largely fit into the Linnaean (two major groups of dinosaurs are known as lizard hipped and bird hipped when translated from Latin).

When DNA was discovered, we were able to check the evolutionists' guesses about relatedness of Linnaean groups, and many (but not all) of evolutionists' guesses turned out to be correct . 250+ years after Linnaeus, similarity of DNA maps quite well on to Linnaean similarity, and provides independent confirmation of Linnaean and evolutionary groupings.

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer According to wikipedia 40% of rodents are mammals.

Rodents (from Latin rodere, 'to gnaw') are mammals of the order Rodentia (/roʊˈdɛnʃə/), which are characterized by a single pair of continuously growing incisors in each of the upper and lower jaws. About 40% of all mammal species are rodents.

spjennifer · 56-60, T

@Carazaa Also from Wikipedia:

"The first fossil records of beaver are 10 to 12 million years old in Germany, and they are thought to have migrated to North America across the Bering Strait. "

Kind of wipes the whole young earth creation theory off of the map though, doesn't it 🥴

Carazaa · F

@spjennifer Don't you wish 😂

ElwoodBlues · M

@Carazaa I'm sure you've heard of carbon dating; C14 is formed in the upper atmosphere by cosmic rays interacting in N14. That carbon is then incorporated into plants and thence into animals. But C14 has a half life of 5750 years, so after ten half lives there's not much C14 left to measure. Still, it's good for aging organic material up to 30,000 or so years back.

Ages of rocks are found by measuring concentrations of various isotopes in rocks. One such dating system is based on uranium and thorium, but there are others.

U-Th dating is based on the activity ratios of parent (Uranium) and product (Thorium) isotopes, by calculating the disintegration of the parent to the daughter over time. This is done by the detection (mass spectrometry) of both the parent (234U) and daughter (230Th) products of decay.

There is remarkable consistency about ages of certain kinds of fossils e.g. a particular kind of dinosaur, found on different continents.

Another interesting date benchmark is the 65 million year old platinum iridium layer found in rocks all around the world. It seems to correspond very well with the disappearance of all the large dinosaurs. It is believed to have been caused by a 10km wide meteor that impacted the Earth, mostly vaporized, and spread material all over the planet. Platinum and iridium are rare metals, so the layer really stands out.

Carazaa · F

@ElwoodBlues A meteor killed all the dinosaurs 65 million years ago??? Come on, don't be so gullible! That is much less believable than God telling us all the names of the families from Adam to Jesus and what happened to those families and their children in great detail, and it is verified with artifacts found in their towns. That is 4000 years. Don't come with fantastical stories of people contradicting the actual communities found. There are no older communities than 6000 years in archeological artifacts. None!

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