One Of Wonders Of God's Creation.

@1234567890a [quote]What’s the question?[/quote]

How natural selection and random chance come up with such remarkable creation?

@GodSpeed63 it’s ALL by God’s design. He’s the creator of those beautiful creatures according to there kind. They can adapt according to their kind. Such an intricate animal. That intricate creature didn’t become that way by chance. How’s that for an answer? Lol

@1234567890a [quote]didn’t become that way by chance[/quote]

Correct. It’s a product of sex and death within constantly changing environments. It’s still an object of sex and death within constantly changing environments, so will continue to evolve... or go extinct (most probably the latter).

@Emosaur Sorry mate it’s up to you to prove that nature has to be a chance happening when it’s quite obvious to anyone with any common sense that it is designed. But then when did atheism and common sense have anything in common?

You are of course as all atheists totally wrong in making this argument. When something is obviously designed as it is then you have to prove it is able to be made by blind forces. You have to prove that non-personal forces can create personality that non-consciousness can create consciousness. And that non intelligence can make intelligence. Sorry, yours is the straw man. Hopeless!of course, you won’t see it because your atheism doesn’t rest on reason but on emotion. There is absolutely no logical evidence for atheism @Emosaur

Look around you. You see design. Look into the human cell - you see a design far greater information than Microsoft could manage. How did this come about by the activity of blind forces? Or I suppose Bill Gates uses blind forces to write his programs for him? You are the one who are making the strawman only the problem is you don’t appear to have the nous to know it.. I haven’t use the straw man at all. The strawman argument is a typical get out of an atheist who has no argument. Now prove to me how blind forces can design a cell - even a simple cell - with that amount of information. This is not a strawman argument it is logic. But unfortunately with atheism logic goes out the window@Emosaur

@1354swrdt [quote]no logical evidence for atheism[/quote]

"In fact, 'atheism' is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a 'non-astrologer' or a 'non-alchemist'. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."
[i]Sam Harris[/i]

Are you saying Sam Harris is a reasonable person ? Please! 🤣@newjaninev2

@1354swrdt [quote]how blind forces can design a cell - even a simple cell[/quote]

Why do you mention a cell?

You’re looking at a result and seeing an objective.

Nothing had to be. Nothing has to be. There is no goal.

Certainly, life can be, and was, much much simpler.

In fact, cells are a wonderful example of evolution by Natural Selection.

It’s nice that there is something, but if there weren’t, then there would simply be a different something... or nothing.

But natural selection is a mechanism not an agency. Where does the information come from?@newjaninev2

@1354swrdt Information is anything that reduces uncertainty. The physical shape of molecules constrains the possible courses of their bonding, and reduces the uncertainty around how they might join together. Those highly localised constraints are therefore informative.

You’re possibly thinking of information as being like some sort of blueprint... a plan of action towards a specific goal. nature simply does not work like that. There are no goals, so no need for any sort of agency.

The only source of information we know of is intelligence. Where does it come from? If there are no goals in nature there would be no creation. @newjaninev2

@1354swrdt As I said, information is anything that reduces uncertainty. In fact, much of what is labelled information is, in fact, merely noise.

I have a niece whose middle name is Jane.

Is that information for you? No, because you weren’t wondering about that, so there was no uncertainty that might be lowered. For you, it’s just noise.

Most of what we encounter every day is merely noise (and perhaps we need to think about that)

[quote]If there are no goals in nature there would be no creation[/quote]

There aren’t, so there wasn’t

Deal with it

You talk absolutely nonsense I’m sorry. If there were no goals in creation we would have no creation. What you are saying is totally without logic but then atheism is totally without logic. You make me laugh you people who are blindly floundering around denying the obvious. Of course information isn’t nice. Information has to have specificity and uniqueness. Like in a cell. You are totally misinformed in this. Of course your nieces named Jane because someone intelligent gave her the name. Deal with it. @newjaninev2

@newjaninev2

[quote]Nothing had to be. Nothing has to be. There is no goal.[/quote]

If you believe in science, then you are wrong in these statements.

@1354swrdt [quote]we would have no creation[/quote]

and you’re assuming we have a creation, are you? Why re making that assumption? Is it because you need to find something for a creator to do?

[quote]denying the obvious[/quote]

No, I’m quite certain that the Sun doesn’t orbit the Earth, but if you want to go with what’s obvious, well...

[quote]Information has to have specificity and uniqueness[/quote]

and so..? What’s your point?

@SomeMichGuy [quote]then you are wrong in these statements[/quote]

Why?