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The Delusion of Atheism [Spirituality & Religion]

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaQpENJLx-I]

The main delusion of atheism is that its followers believe that it exists.

They are deluded into believing that no gods exist, yet they have their own gods that they worship and put their faith in.

They can't understand that there is only one true God, Yahweh, who has revealed Himself to mankind through His Spirit and through His Word, yet they try their darnedest to discredit Him and His Word instead of taking time to understand Him and His Word.

They keep claiming they have evidence for their type of science that evolution happened instead of God, Yahweh, creating the heavens and the earth but fail to produce evidence so far. They, however, have shown evidence that intelligent design happened instead but still claim it's evolution.

They mock, ridicule, and insult hoping that these actions will set them above those who believe, on the contrary, the opposite happens and their mocking, ridiculing, and insults fall back on them. Plus, these actions prove that they have no such evidence to support their claims in that evolution happened or that God, Yahweh, doesn't live.

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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

I do agree that alot of "new atheists" aka anti theists often just swap the Christian evangelical god for exactly the same behavior just with no god and making equally absurd extrapolations from science stretching it beyond the breaking point. I think this "new atheist" anti theist trend is kind of it's own thing. First off because most see all religion through the lens of American evangelicalism and just replace one religion with another.

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Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Then there's us "old atheists" who are still waiting for evidence of any God.

In terms of American evangelicalism, it does seem to be the one that ignores actual science and claim the bible is historically and scientifically inerrant and post their faith claims online. Speaking for myself, I don't see all religions through that particular lens, but I certainly respond to them when they make claims that are patently erroneous.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger That makes you an anti theist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Anyone who honestly believes in science should accept that or you are not acting in good faith.

There are just as many on the other side making huge leaps beyond what can be supported with any science or data. A big one is the fallacy that absence of evidence and evidence of absence are the same.

And as a polytheist I am constantly being strawmaned and accused of holding the same beliefs as someone like the Falwells because their entire framework is Judeo Christian and Atheist and just assume other religions operate the same just with different names and titles.

Sharon · F

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [quote] Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.[/quote]
While that's true, there's also no need to hypothise a god for which there is no evidence.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I'm certainly not anti-theist. Just because I don't believe in a god, doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't exist. It only means that I have not seen any evidence that would convince me.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Sharon The problem is most people who call themselves "new atheists" make statements all the time that assumes it is the same thing. I noticed with most of this crowd like evangelicals it is about conversion not about what you can actually support with science or facts.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [quote]A big one is the fallacy that absence of evidence and evidence of absence are the same.[/quote]

While absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence, it is not always the case. Have you seen any evidence for unicorns?

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger [quote]Then there's us "old atheists" who are still waiting for evidence of any God. [/quote]

If you feel you need to ask someone to prove their god exists that moves into anti theism. To someone who is just atheist that is usually seen as a waste of time and pointless.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [quote]The problem is most people who call themselves "new atheists" make statements all the time that assumes it is the same thing. I noticed with most of this crowd like evangelicals it is about conversion not about what you can actually support with science or facts.[/quote]

Then I'm not a "new atheist".

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger The fallacy that absence of evidence and evidence of absence are the same.

It is either true or it isn't. If you are going to make it conditional when convenient we are no longer dealing with facts or science.

Sharon · F

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [quote]If you feel you need to ask someone to prove their god exists[/quote]
When someone their god is real as a proven, irrefutable, fact and claim they have evidence, it's not unreasonable to ask them to present that evidence. Leaving their claims unchallenged could result in vulnerable people being deceived and exploited.

basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow the problem as well as that when New Atheists hear God, they think it must be the same as the Abrahamic God. That's not the case in many religions. In mine, God is not an anthropomorphic entity, rather God is the unifying force of consciousness.

Sharon · F

@basilfawlty89 [quote]they think it must be the same as the Abrahamic God. [/quote]
Followers of other gods don't usually state their beliefs as proven fact. In general, they tend to make it reasonably clear their beliefs are just what they believe.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [quote]If you feel you need to ask someone to prove their god exists that moves into anti theism. To someone who is just atheist that is usually seen as a waste of time and pointless[/quote]

I know quite a few Christians, Buddhists and a few Muslims. The ones I know in real life have not tried to make me accept their particular beliefs, so I have never asked them to provide evidence. And note that I have not once in this thread used the word "proof" or any of its derivatives. You are the one who uses it. And normally, I don't question a person's belief in their particular God, unless that person makes claims such as only true Christians can have a moral compass, [i]etc[/i].

Sharon · F

@Bushranger That's my approad too. People can believe whatever they want but if they state their beliefs as proven fact, I want to see that proof.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Sharon@Bushranger I am talking more about the types that are convinced any belief is mental illness (which is by itself an unscientific idea) and are looking to "save" people they think are deluded.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Fair enough. But getting back to the absence of evidence discussion, I did a little bit of searching and found this: https://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/512678/absence-of-evidence-is-not-evidence-of-absence-what-does-bayesian-probability-h the example given is, coincidentally, about a unicorn. I'll sum it up extremely briefly; you are told there is a unicorn over the hill and you go an look. If you see no evidence of one then it's a pretty good bet that there isn't one there. That is, absence of evidence of the unicorn is certainly evidence of its absence.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow [quote]people they think are deluded.[/quote]

I will admit to thinking that people who believe the bible is historically and scientifically inerrant are deluded.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger Okay... so do I but I also believe in a deity. We are not all mythic literalists.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow And I don't have a problem with that, but I'd be interested to know your beliefs. Also, I'm exceptionally glad that not all religious people are mythic literalists. Could you imagine what the world would be like if they were?

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger Well I have been a pagan of some flavor for 20 years and a polytheist. I don't believe gods are just Jungian archetypes either which has become trendy in some circles.

My first interaction with a deity has only been in the last year or so however. I am a heathen meaning I follow a deity in the Norse pantheon. I use the Havamal which is a text attributed to Odin as a guide for how to live my life because it has good advice, not because I think it is divine revelation. And I work with Hel the goddess of the underworld who came into my life at the time of this cursed pandemic. I don't think that was an accident. So it has called me to get involved in trying to help people deal with grief and loss from all the death we have seen in the last year and a half and I offer prayers for the dead. I also do this when asked because to me even in spiritual matters consent matters. Often it doesn't even necessarily come up what my beliefs are, I just try and help where I can. I also do stuff like clean litter in cemeteries.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow An all together reasonable belief system.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger Thank you.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I've been interested in Norse mythology for years, but mainly in terms of the stories.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Bushranger The myths and alot of reading on archeology is actually how I came to make sense of some of the weird experiences that happened a year and a half ago.

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I went through an extremely bad time some years ago, it was some of the Buddhist philosophies and practices that got me through. It's interesting how there are many different paths to understanding.

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