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The earth is young like the Bible tells us, not old. [Spirituality & Religion]

I listened to a Christian program this morning when they mentioned that scientists had the dating of some rocks off by millions of years and the rocks had actually formed very recently after a volcano. Carbon dating accuracy is called into question after major flaw discovery,



The Bible and the Young Age of the Earth


Creation or Evolution:



Why don't we hear of people challenging these dates?

It is a rare thing for someone to publicly dispute the alleged "millions of years" age of the earth. When someone does they are often attacked or accused of being ignorant.

We can use critical thinking skills to rule out a millions or billions of years date for the earth.



We can not look at current rates of rock formation, erosion, etc to determine the age of the earth because there may have been factors in the past that are not happening in the present. In fact the Bible tells us just that. A flood covered the entire earth this would alter, shift and mix up the entire face of the earth. This flood also altered the rate of sediments laid down, the formation of sedimentary rock and also the rate of erosion.

Something that may take many years to form today (the Grand Canyon for instance) could have formed quite quickly during the flood.

The Bible even predicted that in the "last days" there would be those who scoff at the bible, and claim that "all things continue as they were from the beginning" (II Peter 3:3). This seems to say that there would be a predominance of uniformitarianism thinking. Mountains form slowly today, so they assume that they must have formed slowly in the past. The Creation model tells us that mountains formed quickly as the result of the flood.

No matter how old the earth is, Evolution is impossible

Everything we know of Science (entropy etc..) tells us that even if the world was millions or even billions of years old, evolution would still be impossible (the chapter on mutations will explain this).(opens new window)

In the popular press we are led to believe that the antiquity of the earth is a proven fact. We are told that all Scientists believe the world is old, and that all of our dating methods confirm this.

The truth is, many well qualified Scientists, and lay people alike are well justified in their belief that the earth, and universe is quite young.

A secret they have learned is one that you may never have been told. It is this: Though a few assorted dating methods give the age of the earth in millions of years, there are far more that limit the age of the earth to a mere few thousand years.

- Why are we not told of these?
It is because they go against the politically correct notion of Evolution.


Evolutionists believe that the universe slowly began to form 20 billion years ago. They believe the earth is about 4.6 billion years old. (references)

While many Young Earth Creationists believe that the earth was Created instantaneously about 6 thousand years ago.

Both of these are belief systems. Neither one can be proven because no one was there to witness the event, and it can not be repeated. But we can examine the evidence and decide which one is more plausible.



The Rocks

There are many layers of rock all over the world. These rock are separated into layers one on top of the other in what is called "rock strata".


We can tell how old the earth is by looking at the strata?

The layers of rock on the bottom would have to have been laid down before the layers on top. But how long before? This is one area that Creationists and Evolutionists disagree on.

Evolutionists believe that each layer represents a period of time.. or an era. Some references.
1. "Field Studies in Catastrophic Geology" by Carl R. Froede Jr.

2. "Sea Floor Sediments and the Age of the Earth" by Dr. Larry Vardiman

3. "Studies in Flood Geology" by John Woodmorappe

There are also some excellent videos:

1. "Biblical Geology: Properly Understanding the Rocks" by Dr Tas Walker

2. "Geologic Evidences for Very Rapid Strata Deposition in the Grand Canyon (DVD)" by Dr Steven Austin

3. "The Geology Book" by Dr John D Morris




The Grand Canyon

If you look at the Grand Canyon you will see thousands of layers of sedimentary rock. The Creationist and the Evolutionist can both look at the same evidence but come to different conclusions.

The evolutionist who believes in an ancient earth will look at these layers of rock and determine that these layers formed slowly over millions of years.

The Creationist who believes the Bible looks at the same evidence but comes to a different conclusion as to how these layers were formed. The Creationist knows that these layers could not have formed over millions of years. As there is little or no erosion between the layers. This is consistent with all the layers being laid down at the same time (the flood).

The Creationist interpretation is that the Grand Canyon was formed as a result of the flood. The receding flood waters would cut through the soft sediments, leaving the canyon. These soft sediments later hardened into their present form.

The canyon may have formed while it was solidifying, as the waters receded (possibly very quickly) it would cut through these layers like butter. Some people claim that it took a little bit of water (the small river) a lot of time (millions of years) to form the canyon. But it could have been the opposite.

A lot of water (the flood) and a little bit of time.

For more information read:

1)"Grand Canyon: A Different View" Compiled by Tom Vail

2) "Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe" by Dr Steven Austin

Videos:

"The Grand Canyon Catastrophe: New Evidence of the Genesis Flood" by Keziah & American Portrait Films

"The Grand Canyon: Monument to the Flood" (VHS)

"Mount St. Helens: Explosive Evidence for Catastrophe" (VHS) Dr Steve Austin

"The Grand Canyon: A Biblical View by Dr. Andrew A. Snelling

"Geologic Evidences for Very Rapid Strata Deposition in the Grand Canyon (DVD)" by Dr Steven Austin


Polystrate fossils

There are many fossils that go through several layers of rock, these are called polystrate fossils (the name polystrate means "many strata", pg 101 "The Young Earth" by John D. Morris, Ph.D.).
Polystrate fossils are a problem for those who believe rock layers take millions of years to form. Look at the picture at the right for example. If each of these layers of rock formed over millions of years, then why are there trees standing straight up through several different layers?

A tree would have died, fallen over and rotted in just a short time. It is clear that the layers were laid down and hardened in a short period of time


Here is one little example and I'll post those volcano rock mistakes they made too shortly.
by Colm Gorey

6 JUN 2018

Here is a Another article

Though one of the most essential tools for determining an ancient object’s age, carbon dating might not be as accurate as we once thought.

When news is announced on the discovery of an archaeological find, we often hear about how the age of the sample was determined using radiocarbon dating, otherwise simply known as carbon dating.

Deemed the gold standard of archaeology, the method was developed in the late 1940s and is based on the idea that radiocarbon (carbon 14) is being constantly created in the atmosphere by cosmic rays which then combine with atmospheric oxygen to form CO2, which is then incorporated into plants during photosynthesis.

When the plant or animal that consumed the foliage dies, it stops exchanging carbon with the environment and from there on in it is simply a case of measuring how much carbon 14 has been emitted, giving its age.

But new research conducted by Cornell University could be about to throw the field of archaeology on its head with the claim that there could be a number of inaccuracies in commonly accepted carbon dating standards.

If this is true, then many of our established historical timelines are thrown into question, potentially needing a re-write of the history books.

In a paper published to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the team led by archaeologist Stuart Manning identified variations in the carbon 14 cycle at certain periods of time throwing off timelines by as much as 20 years.

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The possible reason for this, the team believes, could be due to climatic conditions in our distant past.

Standards too simplified
This is because pre-modern carbon 14 chronologies rely on standardised northern and southern hemisphere calibration curves to determine specific dates and are based on the assumption that carbon 14 levels are similar and stable across both hemispheres.

However, atmospheric measurements from the last 50 years show varying carbon 14 levels throughout. Additionally, we know that plants typically grow at different times in different parts of the northern hemisphere.

To test this oversight, the researchers measured a series of carbon 14 ages in southern Jordan tree rings calculated as being from between 1610 and 1940.

Sure enough, it showed that plant material in the southern Levant showed an average carbon offset of about 19 years compared with the current northern hemisphere standard calibration curve.

“There has been much debate for several decades among scholars arguing for different chronologies sometimes only decades to a century apart, each with major historical implications. And yet these studies […] may all be inaccurate since they are using the wrong radiocarbon information,” Manning said.

“Our work should prompt a round of revisions and rethinking for the timeline of the archaeology and early history of the southern Levant through the early Biblical period.”



siliconrepublic.com
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
I ask you as one who likes proselytising on here if you can explain why those who push Creationism are so desperate to want everyone to share their view, and equally desperate to suppress any attempt to explain what actually happened?


By "explain" I do not expect merely something like "because it's in the Bible" - that merely repeats what they would say. There are some SW would-be evangelists who would do that but I think you are above their level wilful obtuseness. It is their motives I ask after, not what we all know they believe.

You and I know that there are glaring idiocies in what you quote is patently absurd. For example, the idea that the rocks were formed by volcanoes - a volcanic eruption is simply rock being moved in molten form from below the Crust to the surface. Or that the mountains were formed in the Noah flood - floods erode hills not build them, the myth pre-dates the Hebrews who adapted what may have been folklore about a singular but purely-regional flood; and anyway there is not enough water on the Earth!

In doing so they achieve two things they do not intend:

- They cheapen the Hebrew society and its scribes who wrote the OT legends, they insult our intelligence and ultimately they demean their own God. This lays not only themselves, but the ancient Hebrew faith and its Bible open to ridicule, by giving equal weight to believing old human myths of unknown origin, as to believing in God.

- They cheapen and demean science which seeks to understand what actually happened and when, not why or by whom (that's religion's problem). In seeking to distort and crush science they miss the supreme irony in that m nay of them use the Internet to spread their belief.

'
They also ignore the fact that many scientists are also religious without trying to distort science to fit religion. That there are Christian priests who accept scientific knowledge without prostituting that to serve the other. Equally there are many religious people who are not clerics or scientists but still accept geology and palaeontology rather than Creationism. These people, scientists, clerics and lay people equally, basically say, "God created it, let's try to understand how and when He did it."

That approach show us their Gods' works are far, far greater and more majestic than even the brightest of the Hebrew prophets could genuinely have imagined. Hence my charge that the "Young Creationists" and literalists demean science, human intellect and God alike.


So what are the Creationists' motives?


I divide them into two camps:

1) Those who are simply individuals terrified of both questioning the Bible (not God, the book) and accepting the natural and genuine uncertainty that drives science; so find a comforting although spurious, debate-stopping "certainty" in scriptural literalism. Provided they don't try to force on others, that's only their own loss, but I feel sorry for poor old God!

2) Far more serious, the organised campaigners wanting to enforce a Creationist view on society generally. Their tools include warping of science, so-called "Creationist Museums" of Palaeontology-by-The Flintstones level, and dangerously, demands it be taught instead of the natural sciences and as an absolute in schools. (I don't know if some States in the "Land of the Free" still do compel that by law.) I assume that they ignore the fact of not owning anyone's mind so cannot stop anyone choosing to learn whatever they like! It would be very wrong to try to enforce any religious belief anyway, at family, school, regional or national level; for that would be mere bullying, and a religious belief stated merely to obey a bully is empty and insincere.

So... Why? I use "dangerously" by the possible motive I have suspected for a long time, but I want to know the motives directly or from someone like you, an ardent amateur evangelist who probably understands those people more closely than I.


+++

My own views, as background? From a nominally Anglican country, upbringing and education, I :-
Am neither believer nor atheist but an agnostic;
I understand and respect that Christianity is only one of many religions, each coming in different versions each important to its own followers, but I oppose enforcing any religious belief;
I have a broad interest in the sciences;
and most pertinent here, I see and appreciate that Science (How and When?) can co-exist with religion (Why and For Whom?), and appreciate that difference between them.
Carazaa · F
@ArishMell I don't care if you are a creationist or not. All I am saying is that the Bible says God created the world in 6 days and scientists are uncertain of the age of the world, and they proclaim to know. They don't!
chairde · 31-35, M
@Carazaa So...scientists don’t know the true age of the Earth (which is impossible - it’s approximately 4.6 billion years old and you can’t pinpoint it to a day).
Does that mean you are saying the Genesis story is true because it puts an exact figure on how long it took God to create the world?

Also, I don’t believe evangelicals know exactly how long ago the world was created anyway except to say its “about” 6,000 years old. You could argue they’re just as “uncertain” as scientists.
chairde · 31-35, M
@ArishMell I agree with you. By the way, you should read Small Gods by the late, great Terry Pratchett - it has parallels with your first point about believing more in the Bible than God Himself.
Carazaa · F
@chairde The world is 6000 years old and Jesus is coming any day because he has told us he would come after 6000 years in Genesis 1. Derek Walker from Oxford made a few videos about this.
chairde · 31-35, M
@Carazaa 👍
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Carazaa
Derek Walker from Oxford

Why is it important where he lives? If he were Derek Walker from Tokyo his video would be just as ridiculous.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Carazaa Thank you.. I don't think you are a Creationist either, nor did I accuse of you of being one; but you are mistaken about scientists.

Real scientists do not proclaim certainty. They give estimates based on thorough study and review of real evidence and experiments, and give likely measurement tolerances. I referred to fear of that uncertainty and questioning being possibly why some people are Biblical literalists.

Also of course, at a practical level the natural-sciences are international so rise above individual scientists' cultural and social beliefs or religions. They seek to explain how, not why.

Creationists just take the Genesis story as absolute, apparently only because it is in the Bible, and oppress any questioning. If Terry Pratchett had been an Ancient Hebrew, the Creationists now would be telling us the world is a disc borne through Space on a turtle standing on giant elephants, instead. So why do they do it - that is what I asked.

I don't know the Ancient Egyptians' own creation-myth, but if it had been the 6-Day story, I suspect their escaped slaves would have invented something else entirely! :-)

'
In any case, you have not answered the question, only summarised what we already know of your beliefs.

I asked why the Creationists, who do have different ideas on the same theme, are so insistent that their view must be imposed and science - and any other religious view - must be suppressed. Insistent to the point of orchestrated campaigns and attempts to enforce it in schools.

'

(The organisations I call "Commercial Creationists" tried it on here in the UK after the Government, mis-guidedly in my view, semi-privatised education. They failed because schools still have to teach to certain national standards and curricula for nationally-recognised examinations. Creationism would be covered, if at all, as a topic within a broader Religious Education syllabus; quite separate from science including physical-geography. In any case, I doubt school-level science covers past events in depth, only the basics of what is still happening.)

I asked you because I have challenged such people to explain their dictatorial motives, but they can't or won't. I hint what I think is behind the campaigners, above; but thought you might understand them, so can explain them rather than letting me guess!
chairde · 31-35, M
@newjaninev2 I think she mentioned it because “he’s from a traditional seat of learning; he must be correct”.

Plenty of people live in Oxford who never studied at the university.
Carazaa · F
@newjaninev2 Because there are hundreds of Derek Walkers on the web. I want people to get the right Derek Walker. He has studies every book of the Bible for years and is super detailed. He is a great resource!
Carazaa · F
@chairde He has a Masters degree from Oxford University but more impressive than that, is that he has about 100 videos on Revelations and very detailed.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
Carazaa · F
@newjaninev2 Don't lie!
Laurasmodest · 22-25, F
@Carazaa does this guy have a Masters from Oxford or not?
Carazaa · F
@Laurasmodest Yes and he was a Math teacher until he became a pastor.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
Laurasmodest · 22-25, F
@newjaninev2 I do - I don’t even know who he is and google is not helping
Carazaa · F
@newjaninev2 Stop trolling. I proved he does! You are just trying to discourage people from listening to him.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
Carazaa · F
@newjaninev2 I have to block you and delete your lies!
Carazaa · F
@Laurasmodest I have already copied many of his videos, and on some he discloses his masters in MAth but not all and he is a humble guy, and is not wanting the focus on him but on Jesus.
Carazaa · F
@chairde That's right, so I wanted the right guy!
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Laurasmodest He is some nobody who makes sophistic videos. He does not have a Masters from Oxford. Carazaa knows that, yet continues to lie about it, because she feels that a Masters from Oxford would somehow lend credence to this guy’s nonsense
Carazaa · F
@newjaninev2 🌷Please tell me newjaninev2 are you hurt or sad or depressed about something? Why are you so mad? I am here to pray for people and Ill pray for you too. I care about you even if you think I don't.💖
Shpiders · 22-25
@Carazaa if Janine is hurt or suffering from depression, I'd say the last thing she wants to hear is that patronising bullshit
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Carazaa It’s a beautiful Spring morning (Tuesday) and I’m just laying things out for a few friends who are dropping by for morning tea with me. I live extremely well, I haven’t a worry in the world, I’m optimistic and chipper and bubbly and I have absolutely no time for your rather tedious creationist tactic of trying to portray others as hurt or bitter or unstable or fundamentally flawed.

Try peddling that stuff elsewhere. I can’t be bothered with such trifles... I have whipped cream to prepare for the scones. 😀