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The earth is young like the Bible tells us, not old. [Spirituality & Religion]

I listened to a Christian program this morning when they mentioned that scientists had the dating of some rocks off by millions of years and the rocks had actually formed very recently after a volcano. Carbon dating accuracy is called into question after major flaw discovery,



The Bible and the Young Age of the Earth


Creation or Evolution:



Why don't we hear of people challenging these dates?

It is a rare thing for someone to publicly dispute the alleged "millions of years" age of the earth. When someone does they are often attacked or accused of being ignorant.

We can use critical thinking skills to rule out a millions or billions of years date for the earth.



We can not look at current rates of rock formation, erosion, etc to determine the age of the earth because there may have been factors in the past that are not happening in the present. In fact the Bible tells us just that. A flood covered the entire earth this would alter, shift and mix up the entire face of the earth. This flood also altered the rate of sediments laid down, the formation of sedimentary rock and also the rate of erosion.

Something that may take many years to form today (the Grand Canyon for instance) could have formed quite quickly during the flood.

The Bible even predicted that in the "last days" there would be those who scoff at the bible, and claim that "all things continue as they were from the beginning" (II Peter 3:3). This seems to say that there would be a predominance of uniformitarianism thinking. Mountains form slowly today, so they assume that they must have formed slowly in the past. The Creation model tells us that mountains formed quickly as the result of the flood.

No matter how old the earth is, Evolution is impossible

Everything we know of Science (entropy etc..) tells us that even if the world was millions or even billions of years old, evolution would still be impossible (the chapter on mutations will explain this).(opens new window)

In the popular press we are led to believe that the antiquity of the earth is a proven fact. We are told that all Scientists believe the world is old, and that all of our dating methods confirm this.

The truth is, many well qualified Scientists, and lay people alike are well justified in their belief that the earth, and universe is quite young.

A secret they have learned is one that you may never have been told. It is this: Though a few assorted dating methods give the age of the earth in millions of years, there are far more that limit the age of the earth to a mere few thousand years.

- Why are we not told of these?
It is because they go against the politically correct notion of Evolution.


Evolutionists believe that the universe slowly began to form 20 billion years ago. They believe the earth is about 4.6 billion years old. (references)

While many Young Earth Creationists believe that the earth was Created instantaneously about 6 thousand years ago.

Both of these are belief systems. Neither one can be proven because no one was there to witness the event, and it can not be repeated. But we can examine the evidence and decide which one is more plausible.



The Rocks

There are many layers of rock all over the world. These rock are separated into layers one on top of the other in what is called "rock strata".


We can tell how old the earth is by looking at the strata?

The layers of rock on the bottom would have to have been laid down before the layers on top. But how long before? This is one area that Creationists and Evolutionists disagree on.

Evolutionists believe that each layer represents a period of time.. or an era. Some references.
1. "Field Studies in Catastrophic Geology" by Carl R. Froede Jr.

2. "Sea Floor Sediments and the Age of the Earth" by Dr. Larry Vardiman

3. "Studies in Flood Geology" by John Woodmorappe

There are also some excellent videos:

1. "Biblical Geology: Properly Understanding the Rocks" by Dr Tas Walker

2. "Geologic Evidences for Very Rapid Strata Deposition in the Grand Canyon (DVD)" by Dr Steven Austin

3. "The Geology Book" by Dr John D Morris




The Grand Canyon

If you look at the Grand Canyon you will see thousands of layers of sedimentary rock. The Creationist and the Evolutionist can both look at the same evidence but come to different conclusions.

The evolutionist who believes in an ancient earth will look at these layers of rock and determine that these layers formed slowly over millions of years.

The Creationist who believes the Bible looks at the same evidence but comes to a different conclusion as to how these layers were formed. The Creationist knows that these layers could not have formed over millions of years. As there is little or no erosion between the layers. This is consistent with all the layers being laid down at the same time (the flood).

The Creationist interpretation is that the Grand Canyon was formed as a result of the flood. The receding flood waters would cut through the soft sediments, leaving the canyon. These soft sediments later hardened into their present form.

The canyon may have formed while it was solidifying, as the waters receded (possibly very quickly) it would cut through these layers like butter. Some people claim that it took a little bit of water (the small river) a lot of time (millions of years) to form the canyon. But it could have been the opposite.

A lot of water (the flood) and a little bit of time.

For more information read:

1)"Grand Canyon: A Different View" Compiled by Tom Vail

2) "Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe" by Dr Steven Austin

Videos:

"The Grand Canyon Catastrophe: New Evidence of the Genesis Flood" by Keziah & American Portrait Films

"The Grand Canyon: Monument to the Flood" (VHS)

"Mount St. Helens: Explosive Evidence for Catastrophe" (VHS) Dr Steve Austin

"The Grand Canyon: A Biblical View by Dr. Andrew A. Snelling

"Geologic Evidences for Very Rapid Strata Deposition in the Grand Canyon (DVD)" by Dr Steven Austin


Polystrate fossils

There are many fossils that go through several layers of rock, these are called polystrate fossils (the name polystrate means "many strata", pg 101 "The Young Earth" by John D. Morris, Ph.D.).
Polystrate fossils are a problem for those who believe rock layers take millions of years to form. Look at the picture at the right for example. If each of these layers of rock formed over millions of years, then why are there trees standing straight up through several different layers?

A tree would have died, fallen over and rotted in just a short time. It is clear that the layers were laid down and hardened in a short period of time


Here is one little example and I'll post those volcano rock mistakes they made too shortly.
by Colm Gorey

6 JUN 2018

Here is a Another article

Though one of the most essential tools for determining an ancient object’s age, carbon dating might not be as accurate as we once thought.

When news is announced on the discovery of an archaeological find, we often hear about how the age of the sample was determined using radiocarbon dating, otherwise simply known as carbon dating.

Deemed the gold standard of archaeology, the method was developed in the late 1940s and is based on the idea that radiocarbon (carbon 14) is being constantly created in the atmosphere by cosmic rays which then combine with atmospheric oxygen to form CO2, which is then incorporated into plants during photosynthesis.

When the plant or animal that consumed the foliage dies, it stops exchanging carbon with the environment and from there on in it is simply a case of measuring how much carbon 14 has been emitted, giving its age.

But new research conducted by Cornell University could be about to throw the field of archaeology on its head with the claim that there could be a number of inaccuracies in commonly accepted carbon dating standards.

If this is true, then many of our established historical timelines are thrown into question, potentially needing a re-write of the history books.

In a paper published to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the team led by archaeologist Stuart Manning identified variations in the carbon 14 cycle at certain periods of time throwing off timelines by as much as 20 years.

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The possible reason for this, the team believes, could be due to climatic conditions in our distant past.

Standards too simplified
This is because pre-modern carbon 14 chronologies rely on standardised northern and southern hemisphere calibration curves to determine specific dates and are based on the assumption that carbon 14 levels are similar and stable across both hemispheres.

However, atmospheric measurements from the last 50 years show varying carbon 14 levels throughout. Additionally, we know that plants typically grow at different times in different parts of the northern hemisphere.

To test this oversight, the researchers measured a series of carbon 14 ages in southern Jordan tree rings calculated as being from between 1610 and 1940.

Sure enough, it showed that plant material in the southern Levant showed an average carbon offset of about 19 years compared with the current northern hemisphere standard calibration curve.

“There has been much debate for several decades among scholars arguing for different chronologies sometimes only decades to a century apart, each with major historical implications. And yet these studies […] may all be inaccurate since they are using the wrong radiocarbon information,” Manning said.

“Our work should prompt a round of revisions and rethinking for the timeline of the archaeology and early history of the southern Levant through the early Biblical period.”



siliconrepublic.com
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SammyJo · 51-55, F
Errhhhh! As quite a religious person myself, may I just say.....what a bunch of CRAP!

The universe wasn't built a week last Wednesday! That's stupid, and dangerous, talk!

Evolution exists....evolution works......we see it all around us, to this day....we grow and adapt!

I believe that we were created...and that the world, and universes, were created....and that god exists....and that, from that little seed, everything has grown and evolved over BILLIONS of years....

Pretty simple really....

SJD xx
Carazaa · F
@SammyJo So please read Genesis chapter one again. I can copy it for you. explain Genesis chapter one. What does it mean when it says "and then there was morning and evening the first day?" etc.
Adstar · 56-60, M
@SammyJo If you believe in Evolution you cannot believe God created you.. The first part of the theory of evolution states that life spontaneously came into existence from sterile lifeless matter..

I think you are talking about ""Adaptation"" when you say it is ""all around us"" Adaptation is only a Part of the theory of Evolution.. Indeed it is a separate theory all on it's own..
Carazaa · F
@SammyJo The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
SammyJo · 51-55, F
@Adstar God created matter and antimatter...and the universe gave it the spark....How can I state that I believe in god when he didn't create me? Pretty simple! He created the building blocks that, billions of years later, created me!

You could say he had the original patent and drawings....

SJD x
Adstar · 56-60, M
@SammyJo Antimatter has never been observed or detected.. It is only a theory made up in an attempt to fill in the gap between how much matter is supposed to be in the universe according to the Big bang theory and how much matter scientific instruments observe to day.. Instead of changing the theory to fit the observation they decided to make up matter in theory so as to keep their original theory valid.. They do this because they cannot stand to be without a theory and they must doggedly stick to their original theory and prop it up with the anti-matter BS to keep the theory active..

Until such time as another genuine scientist comes up with a new theory of the origin of the universe so they can dump the current one and stand on the new one.. But deleting the old theory and thus having nothing to stand on without having a fully fleshed out new theory is a situation that cannot be tolerated by the scientific establishment..

God created mankind.. God created life.. There is NO observable or demonstrable way that shows life spontaneously coming into existence by any force observed in the natural universe..
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Adstar Saying God created life is fine - believing that may be reverent but is not really relevant to how and when life came into being.

No scientist has said life occurred everywhere "spontaneously", if only because we don't yet how it happened; but we can be reasonably sure it could have been no more than very simple micro-organisms for a very long time; even before more complex algae or similar could produce the oxygen necessary for everything else.

So who says it was spontaneous and by an un-observed force?

It was whoever wrote the Book of Genesis, that's who; then pretended God was the author!

He stated his belief that it was spontaneous and by an unseen god; because whilst all ancient societies accepted a supernatural agency of one sort or another, trying to offer How and When that agency did it was genuinely beyond anyone's Late Bronze Age knowledge..... So to him, God did it, and spontaneously (give or take a few hours).

And we still don't know either how life started, nor if there is a God. Irrespective of our religious beliefs though, genuine ignorance is no excuse for belittling science for trying to establish How and When it did happen. (Belittling it over the Internet, too - Oh the irony).
Adstar · 56-60, M
@ArishMell
No scientist has said life occurred everywhere "spontaneously"

Then you do not know the theory of evolution Arish... The theory of evolution states that life spontaneously came into existence from sterile matter being acted upon by the forces in play in the early universe..

So who says it was spontaneous and by an un-observed force?

It was whoever wrote the Book of Genesis

No the Bible stats that God created everything.. Therefore not an unobserved force.. God did it, not an an unknown force..


And we still don't know either how life started, nor if there is a God

I do.. The God of Abraham created the universe and all within it..

Irrespective of our religious beliefs though, genuine ignorance is no excuse for belittling science for trying to establish How and When it did happen

Kettle calling the pot black... Large sections of the scientific community have been waging a very belittling campaign against Christianity for generations now.. How ironic when a Christian actually stands up and points out the unsubstantiated theories of the scientific community somebody whines about getting their feelings hurt for being belittled..
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Adstar There is a difference between the earliest pieces of living matter, whatever it was, appearing spontaneously itself - and yes of course its source materials were life-less chemicals - but almost certainly over a very long time and patchily in the world's oceans as they were then; and the Creationist's view that everything came into being by a sort of divine conjuring act, all at once and also from nothing.

God is an unknown force, whether you believe in Him / Her / (or logically) It. We can believe in God but neither know its form or nature, nor whether it exists or not. The Bible proves nothing beyond simply what one small Middle Eastern society 2000-3000 or so, believed in and worshipped. That modern Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same deity too, is a matter only of human history; but the notions of universally-creative deities are by no means the sole preserve of the Abrahamic religions.


God created the universe... Fair enough, if you believe that, but is does not try to ask how and when, it merely states one believes in a creative deity.. There is no reason why you cannot believe in God and still want to know how and when he did it.

"unsubtantiated theories..." Meaningless because a Theory has to be a sensible suggestion based on what can be observed or tested, reviewed and adjusted, before being considered either substantiated or rejected. That is the nature of science. Biblical literalism's premise is that none shall test or review, nor present any useful evidence for or against it.

"Large sections... " I dare say there are some scientists individually who belittle religion but most belittle no religion irrespective of their own beliefs. They cannot, if only because they have to work with fellow researchers of all religions and none; and many scientists are religious too, Christian or otherwise.

However, I think the most rabidly anti-science people deserve all they get. They get Christianity a bad name, not just because their claims are silly theologically and philosophically, but more seriously by insisting that only their own version of it is correct and none shall question it. Let alone try to understand God's creation in all its spatial and chronological majesty rich in (N X 10^many) measurements.

Some of them frankly, are fascist - these are the ones so religiously intolerant and self-confined that they divide the world into themselves and "atheists"; and run orchestrated campaigns to banish any education that dares question their narrow view that only the Genesis tale can ever be true and known.
Carazaa · F
@Adstar Thank you!
Adstar · 56-60, M
@Carazaa No worries.. I have pointed out enough to Arish to undermine the theory of evolution.. and of course they dodge the truth that no scientist has demonstrated by experimentation sterile matter under the effects of natural forces spontaneously forming into even a single celled life form... The problem with these evolution activists is they do not have any idea how complicated a single celled organism is.. In the times of Darwin his preposterous idea could get accepted because they had no idea just how complicated a single cell was.. But modern day micro biologists know how insane the theory is that life could just fall together and connect with a reproductive capacity included.. LOL

You just have to move on from some people who believe in such stupidity..
Carazaa · F
@Adstar It's like walking on the beach and you see a sentence like "Hi Jack was here" and say oh no one wrote that sentence, of course its self evident an intelligent being did it. You don't even have to be a micro biologist to logically say, its impossible that no one wrote it. Duh 😇
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@Carazaa Can you give a source for your claim that the first part of the theory of evolution is that life came spontaneously from inorganic matter, please.
Carazaa · F
@Bushranger No I know God created the cell. Where do you believe life came?
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@Carazaa I have to say that I personally don't know the answer to that, but from what I have read, there are some very good hypotheses that outline the progression of self replicating molecules to cells. But the actual process is unknown, as far as I know. However, I'm not aware of any qualified scientist who would say that a cell came into existence spontaneously. It's only creationists who make that claim.
Carazaa · F
@Bushranger So tell me then how did it happen if God did not create life, it made itself from nothing? That is ridiculous!
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@Carazaa It's only your God that can make things from nothing. Reality requires processes. But as I wrote previously, as far as I know, the actual process is unknown.

Perhaps you will tell me what your qualifications are. After all, I've shown you mine, only fair that you show me yours.
Carazaa · F
@Bushranger This is not about me but about Biblical truth. It is irrelevant what my education or qualifications are really, besides I have told you already. But I am happy to say that the videos of the timeline of the world being 6000 years old that I listen to are made by Derek Walker who got a Masters from Oxford University. Math is his specialty and he is a perfectionist and detailed to high heaven when he studies the timeline and every word of the Bible and after studying the Bible for over 30 years he thinks Jesus will be here very soon.🙂
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@Carazaa You've said you have a masters in science and arts. Given your comments about science, I would seriously like to know what area your masters is in. You seemed to think it was important to know mine, so quid pro quo.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Bushranger It's ironical, the Biblical literalists' usual sneer.

They accuse scientists, totally unjustly, of saying life "came from" or "made itself from" an alleged "nothing".

The Genesis fable says that God created Life on Earth. Fine, but from what? Implicitly from...... nothing!

Life came from chemicals and energy sources already on the planet, and the Sun's radiation - heat, light and UV. If you honestly believe a god operated that system, fair enough. If you honestly doubt or disbelieve a god was involved, fair enough. Your choice.

So what are the religionists' really moaning about? Is it simply that Science does not involve God and ignores the Bible-thumpers?
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@ArishMell my main problem with this particular thread is the assertion that evolution requires the emergence of a living cell. Evolution deals with what happened after that. If life came about through abiogenesis, creation or sneezed into existence by a transdimensional nose is of no importance to the theory of evolution.
Sharon · F
@Bushranger It's a common creationists' trick. They misrepresent their own theory of evolution as the genuine "Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection" then set about showing it (theirs) is flawed. They often start by claiming the theory states that life came from nothing. Admittedly their deliberately flawed theory does but the genuine Theory does not deal with abiogenesis.
Adstar · 56-60, M
@Bushranger Nope what happened after that is covered by the theory of ADAPTATION.. Evolution includes the teaching that life spontaneously came into existence from sterile matter under the forces present in the early universe..
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Bushranger A good point.

The religious fundamentalists seem to have various versions of their basic ideologies; and two themes that as you imply, really address separate matters.

The literalists say that God created the Earth (from what?) one day, then all life (from what?) the next day.

Yet the Book of Genesis, by some unknown Hebrew scribe, does not consider evolution, nor does it consider where God found all the materials irrespective of the methods and processes He used.

So the literalists cannot accept evolution because it's not in the Bible. The "Good Book" implies God produced all life known to the Bible's authors, all in one go, and apparently from nothing.

They cannot accept life starting in some very complicated way from a chemical soup under the Sun's radiation; because that's the scientific view. They want life to have started as the Bible states - spontaneously, from nothing.

Then some of them at least, moan like Hell about Science, wrongly accusing it of saying that Life came spontaneously from nothing!


There never was any real conflict. Science attempts to learn how Nature works. Religion simply believes God created it. The conflict is purely artificial, driven by human ego and fear of being questioned or doubted.

'

Also, I can't recall what the myth actually says but the 6-day Creation interpretation has an intriguing, basic, chronological flaw the arguing from both sides usually misses.

The term "Six-Day Creationist" implies pretending God literally did work a 6-day week, but what happened on Monday and I think Tuesday at least, but anyway in the "days" before He made the Earth?

A "day" can only exist on a revolving astronomical object such as a planet; and to the book's anonymous author a "day" was as we use in everyday life and in science nowadays - purely that of the Earth's.

Modern scientists do use Earth years as reference units for calculating astronomical changes that pre-date the Solar System, so when such "years" did not exist physically; but I can't imagine that ancient Hebrew scribe would have considered such points. Only unlike the modern literalists, he genuinely had a real excuse for thinking as he did.

So how long were the Biblical "days"....? 1/365 - ish Years? Or actually ages the writer pondered but genuinely could not comprehend?

When geologists first realised the Earth is far older than Hebrew history and started trying to calculate its real age, one - I forget who - said, "We are staring into the abyss of Time". Very poetic, but I wonder if our old friend dead >2500 years since, had somehow thought in some vaguely similar way, but found it so difficult he made God out to be a celestial conjuror on a 6-day week.

Whoever he was, I like to think that if his ghost could come a-visiting and see what we know now, he would embrace it and re-write his old book completely anew.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@Adstar Where are your sources? Who developed this theory of adaptation of which you speak?
Adstar · 56-60, M
@Bushranger Adaptation has been known for centuries by common farmers who use selective breeding to force their animals and plants to adapt into a more productive unit.. Dog breaders.. People who develop new flower colors have known about Adaptation centuries before Darwin was even born..