Do you engage in silent meditation/prayer? [Spirituality & Religion]
Have you spent time when all you are doing is "internally listening" rather than "internally speaking"?
Has this been meaningful for you?
Has this been meaningful for you?
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Oh yes I do, and get much inspiration and blessings from it. All of us meditate on something throughout the day; we just may or may not do it with intention. However, scripture specifically instructs Christians on the right way to meditate. When we are tempted to let our thoughts rule us, it instructs us to practice biblical meditation, by being deliberate with our thoughts and by directing them on the things of the Lord. What exactly does that involve?
The Bible puts a high value on meditation. (1 Timothy 4:15) The kind of meditation that it encourages, however, does not entail emptying the mind or repeating a certain word or phrase, sometimes called a mantra. Rather, Biblical meditation involves purposeful thinking on wholesome topics, such as God’s qualities, standards, and creations. Not the emptying of the mind, because idleness is the devil's workshop, and when you leave that door open, you're leaving yourself wide-open for Satan to come on in and influence your mind. Other meditations have nothing to do with the Lord. We can also meditate on God, instead of getting lost in pain, by setting our minds on the promises of God.
This is not to say meditation is not beneficial in other things, like preparation while training in sports or workouts. It's just separate as far as God's definition of how to meditate, and how His Word tells Christians to meditate, and otherwise, does not involve nor include Him. I'm not speaking of athletes praying. They certainly have that option. Only of meditation as the bible describes it.
The Bible puts a high value on meditation. (1 Timothy 4:15) The kind of meditation that it encourages, however, does not entail emptying the mind or repeating a certain word or phrase, sometimes called a mantra. Rather, Biblical meditation involves purposeful thinking on wholesome topics, such as God’s qualities, standards, and creations. Not the emptying of the mind, because idleness is the devil's workshop, and when you leave that door open, you're leaving yourself wide-open for Satan to come on in and influence your mind. Other meditations have nothing to do with the Lord. We can also meditate on God, instead of getting lost in pain, by setting our minds on the promises of God.
This is not to say meditation is not beneficial in other things, like preparation while training in sports or workouts. It's just separate as far as God's definition of how to meditate, and how His Word tells Christians to meditate, and otherwise, does not involve nor include Him. I'm not speaking of athletes praying. They certainly have that option. Only of meditation as the bible describes it.
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SW-User
@DrWatson Lectio Divina is the only way I read a Christian scripture. Something like it is the only way I read a Buddhist scripture as well. There is a lot of wisdom in the four movements of Lectio Divina. Words and silence are powerful when coupled with an inner listening.
SW-User
@LadyGrace I find quieting the mind the opposite of being still and letting the devil in. I find quieting the mind the only way to hear God. In truth, I find quieting the mind the only way to see myself, really know what I am saying and doing. To know where my heart is. And that is a huge part of spiritual discipline.
@SW-User I only follow what God's Word says, not manmade philosophies. God has instructed us in the Bible, not to perform "special kinds of process[es]" or "formula[s],"as Thomas Keating calls lectio divina, to induce mystical experiences (see Deuteronomy 18:9-11).
We must be careful as Satan has many cunning and deceitful devices for causing things to appear innocent and of God. There are many false teachers in this world. God's Word says to test the spirits, to see if they are of God or not. How do we do that? God said if anyone comes to us with false doctrine or any other teachings that do not match up with His Word, then they are false teachers. Lectio divina is a bridge to eastern-style meditation. Buddhists look within themselves for the truth and understanding of Buddha's teachings, not Christ's. They seek enlightenment, or nirvana, this way.
Salvation by works seems right in the eyes of MAN. One of man’s basic desires is to be in control of his own destiny, and that includes his eternal destiny. Salvation by works appeals to man’s pride and his desire to be in control. However, this is the opposite of what God's Word says.
Because salvation by works appeals to man’s sinful nature, it forms the basis of almost every religion except for biblical Christianity. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this NOT from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—NOT by works, so that no one can boast!!” (Ephesians 2:8–9).
Another reason why salvation by works is the predominantly held viewpoint, is that natural or unregenerate man does not fully understand the extent of his own sinfulness, or of God’s holiness. Man’s heart is “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9), and God is infinitely holy (Isaiah 6:3). The deceit of our hearts is the very thing that colors our perception of the extent of that deceit and is what prevents us from seeing our true state before a God whose holiness we are also unable to fully comprehend. But the truth remains that our sinfulness and God’s holiness, combine to make even our best efforts to appear as “filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6; cf. 6:1–5). So while salvation by works might be the predominantly held viewpoint, it is NOT an accurate one biblically. The Bible contains abundant evidence of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).
We must be careful as Satan has many cunning and deceitful devices for causing things to appear innocent and of God. There are many false teachers in this world. God's Word says to test the spirits, to see if they are of God or not. How do we do that? God said if anyone comes to us with false doctrine or any other teachings that do not match up with His Word, then they are false teachers. Lectio divina is a bridge to eastern-style meditation. Buddhists look within themselves for the truth and understanding of Buddha's teachings, not Christ's. They seek enlightenment, or nirvana, this way.
Salvation by works seems right in the eyes of MAN. One of man’s basic desires is to be in control of his own destiny, and that includes his eternal destiny. Salvation by works appeals to man’s pride and his desire to be in control. However, this is the opposite of what God's Word says.
Because salvation by works appeals to man’s sinful nature, it forms the basis of almost every religion except for biblical Christianity. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this NOT from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—NOT by works, so that no one can boast!!” (Ephesians 2:8–9).
Another reason why salvation by works is the predominantly held viewpoint, is that natural or unregenerate man does not fully understand the extent of his own sinfulness, or of God’s holiness. Man’s heart is “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9), and God is infinitely holy (Isaiah 6:3). The deceit of our hearts is the very thing that colors our perception of the extent of that deceit and is what prevents us from seeing our true state before a God whose holiness we are also unable to fully comprehend. But the truth remains that our sinfulness and God’s holiness, combine to make even our best efforts to appear as “filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6; cf. 6:1–5). So while salvation by works might be the predominantly held viewpoint, it is NOT an accurate one biblically. The Bible contains abundant evidence of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).
SW-User
@LadyGrace I don’t follow Keating. But that’s besides the point.
And lectio divina does not aim to induce any experiences. If I wanted that I would seek out DMT and it’s derivatives.
It’s really not a matter of religion. It is one of neuropsychology. Regardless of our religious perspectives, we are mammals and limited by our physiology.
Our capacity to focus on anything degrades when our mind is full and when we are over stimulated. This is something contemplatives know, really regardless of their spiritual confession. This is found in Buddhism, Hinduism, and all the Abrahamic religions. In the Christian tradition it goes back before even the Desert Fathers. To at least Origen.
When the mind and heart are full, they can’t be filled.
Lectio divina is just reading with a full, still, and open heart.
And lectio divina does not aim to induce any experiences. If I wanted that I would seek out DMT and it’s derivatives.
It’s really not a matter of religion. It is one of neuropsychology. Regardless of our religious perspectives, we are mammals and limited by our physiology.
Our capacity to focus on anything degrades when our mind is full and when we are over stimulated. This is something contemplatives know, really regardless of their spiritual confession. This is found in Buddhism, Hinduism, and all the Abrahamic religions. In the Christian tradition it goes back before even the Desert Fathers. To at least Origen.
When the mind and heart are full, they can’t be filled.
Lectio divina is just reading with a full, still, and open heart.
@SW-User
That's where we differ. That is not in the Christian context nor God's Word. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this NOT from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—NOT by works, so that no one can boast!!” (Ephesians 2:8–9).
In the Christian context I use the methods of lectio divina, centering prayer, and prayer of the heart.
That's where we differ. That is not in the Christian context nor God's Word. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this NOT from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God—NOT by works, so that no one can boast!!” (Ephesians 2:8–9).
SW-User
@LadyGrace Lectio divina is not about man’s works. It is about reading and contemplating with as much presence as possible. The same really with centering prayer and prayer of the heart. They are passive not active exercises. Emptying oneself out, really so there is space for more than just one’s neurosis and projection.
@SW-User
It is not besides the point. It matters what we believe and why. I didnt say you follow Keating. I said you follow and practice lectio divina. It all seems innocent enough, but the bible instructs differently:
"There's a way that seems right to man, BUT the END thereof, is DEATH." In other words, do not lean on your own understanding, instead of God's Word. Nowhere in God's Word does it say to turn to Lectio Divina. We already have instruction from God on how to meditate.
Lectio divina does aim to induce experiences.
The dangers inherent in opening our minds and listening for voices, should be obvious. The contemplative pray-ers are so eager to hear something — anything, that they can lose the objectivity needed to discern between God’s voice, their own thoughts, and the infiltration of demons into their minds… God never said to empty the mind before meditation. He know it's an invitation for Satan to slip in.
Finally, the attack on the sufficiency of Scripture is a clear distinctive of lectio divina. Where the Bible claims to be all we need to live the Christian life (2 Timothy 3:16), lectio’s adherents deny that. Those who practice “conversational” prayers, seeking a special revelation from God, are asking Him to bypass what He has already revealed to mankind, as though He would now renege on all His promises concerning His eternal Word. Psalm 19:7-14 contains the definitive statement about the sufficiency of Scripture. It is “perfect, reviving the soul”; it is “right, rejoicing the heart”; it is “pure, enlightening the eyes”; it is “true” and “righteous altogether”; and it is “more desirable than gold.” If God meant all that He said in this psalm, there is no need for additional revelation, and to ask Him for one is to deny what He has already revealed in His Word.
I don’t follow Keating. But that’s besides the point.
And lectio divina does not aim to induce any experiences. If I wanted that I would seek out DMT and it’s derivatives.
And lectio divina does not aim to induce any experiences. If I wanted that I would seek out DMT and it’s derivatives.
It is not besides the point. It matters what we believe and why. I didnt say you follow Keating. I said you follow and practice lectio divina. It all seems innocent enough, but the bible instructs differently:
"There's a way that seems right to man, BUT the END thereof, is DEATH." In other words, do not lean on your own understanding, instead of God's Word. Nowhere in God's Word does it say to turn to Lectio Divina. We already have instruction from God on how to meditate.
Lectio divina does aim to induce experiences.
The dangers inherent in opening our minds and listening for voices, should be obvious. The contemplative pray-ers are so eager to hear something — anything, that they can lose the objectivity needed to discern between God’s voice, their own thoughts, and the infiltration of demons into their minds… God never said to empty the mind before meditation. He know it's an invitation for Satan to slip in.
Finally, the attack on the sufficiency of Scripture is a clear distinctive of lectio divina. Where the Bible claims to be all we need to live the Christian life (2 Timothy 3:16), lectio’s adherents deny that. Those who practice “conversational” prayers, seeking a special revelation from God, are asking Him to bypass what He has already revealed to mankind, as though He would now renege on all His promises concerning His eternal Word. Psalm 19:7-14 contains the definitive statement about the sufficiency of Scripture. It is “perfect, reviving the soul”; it is “right, rejoicing the heart”; it is “pure, enlightening the eyes”; it is “true” and “righteous altogether”; and it is “more desirable than gold.” If God meant all that He said in this psalm, there is no need for additional revelation, and to ask Him for one is to deny what He has already revealed in His Word.
SW-User
@LadyGrace No. Lectio divina doesn't aim to induce experience.
Doesn't matter if I'm practicing lectio divina or zazen. If I calm and quiet my mind have an an experience-- that's my neurophysiology, my mind, telling me something. Not the method.
We're really done now, because you continue and have yet to ask for clarification. Anything about what I'm talking about. So you're really talking with yourself. Be well.
Doesn't matter if I'm practicing lectio divina or zazen. If I calm and quiet my mind have an an experience-- that's my neurophysiology, my mind, telling me something. Not the method.
We're really done now, because you continue and have yet to ask for clarification. Anything about what I'm talking about. So you're really talking with yourself. Be well.
@SW-User There is no neurosis and projection, when sticking with God's Word instead of trying to figure out things of the Spirit on our own, through the emptying of our minds to any in the Spirit world. God's Word tells we don't have to guess about or interpret our own things. That's why the bible says not to lean to figuring things out on our own. It specifically states that it is the HOLY SPIRIT that shall come to us when we pray or meditate, that shall give us knowledge and wisdom. The Bible also says that of ANY seeks wisdom, let him ask of the Lord, no one else, not even man, And he shall give it abundantly.
SW-User
@LadyGrace I never once mentioned "figuring out things on our own." That is your projection. We're done.
@SW-User It's about man's works if he's depending on the spirits to speak to his mind. It is your own self trying to communicate with God in a way that the Bible opposes. The Bible says open your mind up, and you are opening it up to all kinds of spirits. That falls in the category of experimentation according to God's Word. Call it what you want, but that's what it is. And by teaching that and delving into that, you are teaching others Something other than what God says in his word.
SW-User
@LadyGrace I have never actually taught anyone anything. That is your projection.
And I have never spoken of "opening up the mind". That is your projection.
I have spoken of quieting it. The early Church fathers called it nipsis. There's different names in different traditions. These days we talk about mindfulness.
And I have never spoken of "opening up the mind". That is your projection.
I have spoken of quieting it. The early Church fathers called it nipsis. There's different names in different traditions. These days we talk about mindfulness.
@SW-User no that is not my projection. Because that's what people do in those Lectio Divina group. They get together don't they? And they do this all together. Showing each other what to do. Someone had to teach them, whether it was you or someone else. You've made plenty of accusations towards me, with absolutely no foundation.
SW-User
@LadyGrace The only accusations I have made, fairly or unfairly, is making assumptions about me.
This would have been a different conversation if you had just asked: Hey, that's interesting! Tell me me where you learned about lectio divina? Buddhist and Christian meditation? That's unusual! Tell me about that! And I would have said. And maybe we'd have had a similar conversation. Maybe not. I suspect not.
I have never been to a lectio divina group. Never practiced lectio divina with anyone but myself. I have never taught it to anyone. I've never really taught any form of meditation to anyone. I don't discuss my faith with anyone, I certainly don't teach it. I'm not a neurophysiologist, a meditation teacher, a minister, a priest, a theologian.
I commented to DrWatson's post because it spoke to me. The world could use some inner listening. Less inner speaking.
This would have been a different conversation if you had just asked: Hey, that's interesting! Tell me me where you learned about lectio divina? Buddhist and Christian meditation? That's unusual! Tell me about that! And I would have said. And maybe we'd have had a similar conversation. Maybe not. I suspect not.
I have never been to a lectio divina group. Never practiced lectio divina with anyone but myself. I have never taught it to anyone. I've never really taught any form of meditation to anyone. I don't discuss my faith with anyone, I certainly don't teach it. I'm not a neurophysiologist, a meditation teacher, a minister, a priest, a theologian.
I commented to DrWatson's post because it spoke to me. The world could use some inner listening. Less inner speaking.
@SW-User Another false accusation by you. I explained to you that what you call "accusations", came merely from the study of Buddhist beliefs. Yet, you on the other hand, have yet to tell me the basis and source of your beliefs.
@SW-User
No. The world could use some ministers of God who teach directly and specifically from God's Word and more people who delve into its plethora of wisdom, to learn the truth.
I commented to DrWatson's post because it spoke to me. The world could use some inner listening. Less inner speaking.
No. The world could use some ministers of God who teach directly and specifically from God's Word and more people who delve into its plethora of wisdom, to learn the truth.
Dorje :
Ok, now you're getting annoying. Don't turn this around to avoid and distract from the fact that I have given you plenty of opportunities to have your say and you had no answers for me, even now, because you have none, so you resort these minor distractions. Had you simply answered my question about your beliefs and faith, this conversation never would have taken place.
This would have been a different conversation if you had just asked: Hey, that's interesting! Tell me me where you learned about lectio divina? Buddhist and Christian meditation? That's unusual! Tell me about that! And I would have said. And maybe we'd have had a similar conversation. Maybe not. I suspect not.
Ok, now you're getting annoying. Don't turn this around to avoid and distract from the fact that I have given you plenty of opportunities to have your say and you had no answers for me, even now, because you have none, so you resort these minor distractions. Had you simply answered my question about your beliefs and faith, this conversation never would have taken place.
I have never been to a lectio divina group. Never practiced lectio divina with anyone but myself. I have never taught it to anyone. I've never really taught any form of meditation to anyone. I don't discuss my faith with anyone, I certainly don't teach it. I'm not a neurophysiologist, a meditation teacher, a minister, a priest, a theologian.
Well....it's the first you've ever told me of it. When you practice lectio divina, you are practicing "mindfulness", which the bible describes as falling along the lines of witchcraft. The bible says that, not me. You are not dependent on God speaking to you, but by opening your mind up, you are subjecting it to any spirit out there. The bible says so. The Bible says to keep our minds on him in his word, not relying on ourselves to be open to any of the spirits out there.
SW-User
@LadyGrace I hate to be *that guy*, but it's practicing mindfulness to chop the onions and not slice one's fingertips off.
I think you and I have very different ideas to what "mindfulness" is.
Which is why I hate having these conversations without establishing common ground first.
"Mindfulness" is just being aware of what one is doing with the mind and body. No more, no less.
It's not opening up your mind, letting go, whatever.
chopchopchopchopchop OW *bleed*... that's not having mindfulness.
chopchopchopchopchop... that's having mindfulness.
It's the same with being aware of what our minds are actually doing at any given time. Am I paying bills or remembering that conversation from earlier today? Am I shopping or am I day dreaming? And when it comes to my spirituality, am I focused on Christ, God, or am I off wandering away in my head?
That's all mindfulness is.
Emptying the mind, whatever that is, is exactly the opposite of mindfulness.
We waste most of our lives without intention, focus. And we are the worse for it. We miss out on what's before us. We get stressed, depressed. We get caught in our own thoughts and feelings.
Be well.
If we have totally different ideas as to what mindfulness is and stilling the mind is, then this has been fun and pleasant. You are nice and interesting. But really crossing each other.
I think you and I have very different ideas to what "mindfulness" is.
Which is why I hate having these conversations without establishing common ground first.
"Mindfulness" is just being aware of what one is doing with the mind and body. No more, no less.
It's not opening up your mind, letting go, whatever.
chopchopchopchopchop OW *bleed*... that's not having mindfulness.
chopchopchopchopchop... that's having mindfulness.
It's the same with being aware of what our minds are actually doing at any given time. Am I paying bills or remembering that conversation from earlier today? Am I shopping or am I day dreaming? And when it comes to my spirituality, am I focused on Christ, God, or am I off wandering away in my head?
That's all mindfulness is.
Emptying the mind, whatever that is, is exactly the opposite of mindfulness.
We waste most of our lives without intention, focus. And we are the worse for it. We miss out on what's before us. We get stressed, depressed. We get caught in our own thoughts and feelings.
Be well.
If we have totally different ideas as to what mindfulness is and stilling the mind is, then this has been fun and pleasant. You are nice and interesting. But really crossing each other.
@Dorje: Say what you want, making your practices seem innocent, but regardless, you mimic Buddhism, which you said you practice, and also use mindfulness....not approved of in God's Word. And by speaking those beliefs in posts I've seen, and on here, you are teaching others to follow Buddhist beliefs and traditions for salvation, and not according to God's Word. Jesus says that is false teaching and manmade philosophy.
@SW-User
We sure do. There's a huge difference, as I explained earlier, between everyday mindfulness and meditating on God. God puts your description of mindfulness along the same category as witchcraft. Thanks for the conversation, but now we have concluded it.
I hate to be *that guy*, but it's practicing mindfulness to chop the onions and not slice one's fingertips off.
I think you and I have very different ideas to what "mindfulness" is.
I think you and I have very different ideas to what "mindfulness" is.
We sure do. There's a huge difference, as I explained earlier, between everyday mindfulness and meditating on God. God puts your description of mindfulness along the same category as witchcraft. Thanks for the conversation, but now we have concluded it.
SW-User
@LadyGrace I think what you're saying is extrapolating way beyond biblical teachings unless you can provide me with anything that supports your claim that God puts Buddhist mindfulness as akin to witchcraft or that Buddhist meditation frees up the mind for the devil...
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