I just hate it when people put blame on Satan for their mistakes instead of taking responsibility. [Spirituality & Religion]

You ask a great question. And this has been debated and talked about for centuries. It's a very difficult question. There are better people qualified to answer this than me, and I hope you pursue this to your satisfaction. All I can tell you is that God created angels and people, and He allowed them the freedom to make their own choices. Lucifer decided to go against God. And so did we. God knew this would happen before He created us, and yet He created us anyhow. And I think God did this in order to show His great love. That even though we are against Him, He is to against us. God loves us despite our rejection of Him. And He proved his love by coming down from heaven and walking alongside us in the form of Jesus Christ. Moreover, because God requires justice for the wrongs we do, Jesus took all the punishment on the cross so that if we believe in Him we are treated as if we never did anything wrong at all. There really is no other way God could have given us freedom of choice and at the same time given us a way out of the bad choices He knew we were going make. @thinkincubes

@thinkincubes How could everything after that be God's choice, when he gave man free will, which is nothing but a choice? He gave us the ability to think for ourselves, and He placed a conscience in us, to know right from wrong. If we choose to sin, that's hardly God's fault. He didn't force us to sin. Man tries to avoid responsibility by passing the buck off on God. That would be like me robbing a bank but blaming you for it and you take the punishment. Nothing fair about it.

@LadyGrace Isn't God omniscient? Giving someone free will knowing all too well they will make the 'wrong' choices is setting them up to fail.

@thinkincubes Well, here's the deal. People mistake the word omniscient for meaning that God controls every single thing. This is why he gave us free will. So that we could choose whom we would serve. Just because God knows something, does not mean that we are predestined in any way. It just means that being that he is God, he definitely already knows the outcome of what is going to happen, as He can see into our future, however, the choice is still ours.

@LadyGrace Does He then weep in advance, knowing all too well I will reject Him? Why bother making me at all? Condemned to suffer without Him?

@thinkincubes He does. It breaks His heart. Especially to think that he died on the cross to save you from the consequences of your sins, but you want nothing to do with choosing to be saved, when salvation is a free gift, right at your fingertips.

God does not bring us death. He does not even condemn us. He's not even mad at us! He hates SIN....NOT PEOPLE. Because our sins separate us from Him and condemn us, not God. He came to [u]save[/u] us. Our sins separate us from God. As long as one is alive, they can be saved. It's only too late, [u]after[/u] we die, to make that decision. Why would someone pass that opportunity up, and instead choose eternal separation from a God who only loves them and wants to give them eternal life in heaven? It kills Him that any should perish, but if that is what they choose, He has no choice but to honor their request. Would a man beg for his bride's love? No, because it is not freely given and he knows that she does not really love him, or she would show him by reciprocating that love. No one enjoys forced love. That is not love. That is why God did not make us as robots, with no feelings.

@LadyGrace But, forgive me if I sound like a broken record, in the beginning there was only God. Perfect, no sin, no evil, just omniscient, omnipotent eternal perfection. Why mess with perfection? Was God bored? Lonely? Why bother creating sin, evil, flaws, suffering at all? And then, much more cruelly, why bother making a bunch of inferior lifeforms and making them so fatally flawed that a large majority of them will succumb to all of the evil He himself created? Remember, if there was only God, there was NO evil. None!

@thinkincubes God's character is that he is a Creator. That's what he does. Created the whole universe and all that is in it. God is perfect. He doesn't get lonely or any of those traits we humans have here. The Bible gives us the explanation of our creation as that of being loved. Though he did not "need us", as we, in our finite minds believe God needs us, or as we do others at times, He does love fellowship. We were His crown creation. The Best of the Best! It's obvious from where he placed man in the Garden of Eden (and such a beautiful place), that he enjoys doing for us and giving us His best. He looked forward to showering us with His best. God does not make mistakes. Make no mistake about that. However, take note of this. Even though he is God and knew in advance that we would sin, He still created us, because he had provided us a way out, even though we messed up his plans. Remember, we have free will. Also remember, that even though he knew he would have to die to pay for our sins on the cross, he loved us so much, that he took our sins upon himself, anyway, [b]knowing[/b] how horrible a death he would face, and still decided he wanted us, because he loves us so much. This was not a selfish man, nor someone "out to get us". We were literally created from Love.

God never created evil. Evil was found in the heart of man, at his own choosing. We see that clearly today.

@LadyGrace (Apologies for the following rant, you've been patient and thorough in your arguments)

But seriously, how could anyone possibly believe mankind to be anyone's crowning achievement? Look around you! Every plant, every animal, every single bit of nature exists in gorgeous harmony, perfectly fulfilling its function without malice, coexisting in equilibrium. Enter human beings. We hurt, kill, rape and torture. We ruin everything that touches us, like a virus. Soon enough, while wallowing in our own genius, we will have destroyed our planet, a truly fantastic place where we could have lived for God only knows how long. A crowning achievement?! Anyone who purposefully let the human race loose on such a perfect paradise has to be sadistic in nature, and honestly the idea of a sadistic God is unappealing to me on many levels.

@thinkincubes Are you kidding? No apologies needed. We're simply discussing. Everything you say is [u]important[/u]. I love hearing your ideas and beliefs. They never need to match mine. 😂

My friend, man's perspective of God is greatly wanting. How can He fairly judge his Maker, when God does not think the way we do, and His ways are not our ways? Do we have a perfect lens to judge God from? Do we know and understand all there is to know about God, this Universe, and everything in it? Even God does not judge us [i]this[/i] hard! No. He didn't [i]have[/i] to save us. He could have let us all go to Hell, but He didn't. He not only said he loves us, he proved it. And you fault him for that?

I'm sure you [b]don't[/b] know this, but I must tell you that attributing God's Works to that of Satan, is and unpardonable sin. It's only when we know better, that we do better. I ask you....who are we to question God, if He declared we are His crowning achievement? That's His business. The alternative is that we are just hapless victims of a purposeless accident that occurred from countless random interactions within something called matter from which no one knows the source. Really? Not much hope, and really very dreary. I believe God’s explanation. God’s crowning achievement was the creation of humanity, which He directly created (Psalm 8: Genesis 2:7, 21, 22). None of us must allow our ego, to define God, nor place value on it. We're just not that smart. We are not smarter nor wiser than God, that we might judge the Almighty.

There's a way that [b]seems[/b] right to man, but the end thereof, is death. Proverbs 14:12 ... Spiritually and physically.

Psalm 8:5 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him." And hast crowned him with glory and honour ; i.e. "and, by so doing , by giving him a nature but a little short of the Divine, hast put on him a crown of glory such as thou hast given to no other creature."

@LadyGrace I don't attribute evil to Satan (and certainly not good), I attribute it to mankind. I do not know who or what made the universe and all the beauty in it, but I know it's us who are fucking it up. Blaming Satan takes away responsibility, and it is ours and ours alone. I don't need God to feel guilty, I know I'm a piece of shit. I didn't ask to be born, I try my best, I'm scared, but in the end those are all excuses. I do not fight the evil around me as I should, and carry that guilt with me. I don't want to get rid of it, I don't want to be forgiven, I don't want to be happy. What I want, and what I get, is to feel appropriately guilty for the shit I do and don't do. The time for my crime.

Now, you can keep quoting the Bible but keep in mind that I've never seen any sign( let alone proof) of divinity in it. To me it's just words, clearly written by humans, full of human emotions, problems and history. Man, I wish I saw God in it. I wish I saw Him in anything! What a blessing it must be, to believe. To never be alone, to have trust, to have a future beyond death. But I don't, so your Scripture quotes are not going to lead to anything. If you say believing is better than the alternative, I agree with you, it is! But If I don't, I can't magically make it so, and I imagine a God would be able to tell if I was faking it.

@thinkincubes True, I read Bible just because my ex told to. I chose Psalm to read because it's more timid compared to other chapters and boy, it's full of how God smite people who don't worship him, how 'bad' people talk against God and they'll burn in hell, and more scaring people into worshipping him. No words of wisdom there. Then I did the mistake look into the infamous chapter of Genesis and I was like why is this here, there are children who read this, have they ever read this part?

I'm going to tell you something honestly. My heart really goes out to you. It really does. You seem like a nice young man who is trying to make sense of God. And let me assure you. There is a God. And God loves you tremendously. And He longs for you to love him back. You aren't happy with yourself because of the "shit" you do. Well, my friend, welcome to the club. Anyone with a conscience feels the same. The only difference between you and me is that I know I am forgiven by God, but you don't know. You don't even seem to want to be forgiven. By why not? God is in the business of forgiving. God cares so much about forgiveness that He came down from the comforts of heaven and he became a human being for a few years. That's who Jesus is. Jesus is God; God is Jesus. And forgiveness flows through Jesus. The only condition is that you must believe in Jesus. And that is way too difficult for most people. Look, I really want you to have a real relationship with God. And the only way to have this relationship is through Jesus. But you don't believe. Well, neither did I for the first 30 years of my life. I knew there was a God, but I wanted Him to tell me what He expected from me. I kept asking God to reveal himself to me. And I asked and asked for a long time. Then God granted it to me.
My suggestion to you is to ask God for help. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. And keep at it. Many people ask, but then they turn away because God doesn't answer them right at that moment. This is not fast food. God reveals Himself to us in His own time. But be persistent. Keep at Him. Keep asking. Keep knocking at the door. Do this, and you will find God. And maybe you can give the Bible one last look. Try the book of John. John's main focus is on the deity of Jesus. And then of course John explains why Jesus had to die and the wonderful benefit to us resulting in His crucifixion.
I'll leave it at that. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try and answer them.
From Ron. @thinkincubes