9 more discoveries that verifies that the Bible is reliable! [Spirituality & Religion]
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Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@Ian123 If you really believe that, then you are trully lost.
The Old Testament-Torah and even the New Testament are foundations of manny believes in this world. Lots of people have an interest in these books. Therefore they have been studied and are still being studied for their historical relevance. And so far we can conclude that these works are works of fiction. Just like works of fiction they romanticise historical events, incorperate historical figures and places, etc.
If you just look at the first argument of his 9 points. He talks about Pontius Pilate and according to an historical dig they can find that Pilate was the keeper of the region known as Judeah. And he concludes from this that the stories have to have some "real" relevance to it. If we follow that logic (if it really is that easy) then we can read the "3 Musketeers" by Dumas. And we can look up French history and we'll find that Richelieu and Louis the 13th were real excisting people... and then we can say: "So the story of the 3 musketereers must be real". That's the simplicity of his argument right there.
And then we can go through all 9 of his statements... (I only did 2 before I wrote my message) and we can go on finding correlations of simplicity. Do you know why that is? Because the person is biased, because he wants it to be true. Just like the author of this post is biased, just like your argument is biased. You guys are not searching for the truth, you are looking for straws that confirm your bias and then you can say stuff like: "The facts are there and you won't change them.". The problem with that statement of course... is that the facts don't acknowledge the story, the straws are.
If you are going to read other sources that actually have done historical research on this, and I'll name two:
- Francesca Stavrakopoulou
- Bart D. Ehrman
Then you will start to find out that this conception of realness isn't true. Even in certain christian and jewish religious circles "the word of God" (or the holy books) are seen as stories that will guide you through your life with wisdome from God. But not as historical events. It's only extreme orthodox cults that glorified these stories to "historical history" and the consequence is that people like yourself start believing these myths and start educating others on the "facts" of the matter. I don't know about you, but if your facts are so factual, you should start looking at the nay-sayers and figure out if they hold up. Maybe there is a chance you get back to reality.
The Old Testament-Torah and even the New Testament are foundations of manny believes in this world. Lots of people have an interest in these books. Therefore they have been studied and are still being studied for their historical relevance. And so far we can conclude that these works are works of fiction. Just like works of fiction they romanticise historical events, incorperate historical figures and places, etc.
If you just look at the first argument of his 9 points. He talks about Pontius Pilate and according to an historical dig they can find that Pilate was the keeper of the region known as Judeah. And he concludes from this that the stories have to have some "real" relevance to it. If we follow that logic (if it really is that easy) then we can read the "3 Musketeers" by Dumas. And we can look up French history and we'll find that Richelieu and Louis the 13th were real excisting people... and then we can say: "So the story of the 3 musketereers must be real". That's the simplicity of his argument right there.
And then we can go through all 9 of his statements... (I only did 2 before I wrote my message) and we can go on finding correlations of simplicity. Do you know why that is? Because the person is biased, because he wants it to be true. Just like the author of this post is biased, just like your argument is biased. You guys are not searching for the truth, you are looking for straws that confirm your bias and then you can say stuff like: "The facts are there and you won't change them.". The problem with that statement of course... is that the facts don't acknowledge the story, the straws are.
If you are going to read other sources that actually have done historical research on this, and I'll name two:
- Francesca Stavrakopoulou
- Bart D. Ehrman
Then you will start to find out that this conception of realness isn't true. Even in certain christian and jewish religious circles "the word of God" (or the holy books) are seen as stories that will guide you through your life with wisdome from God. But not as historical events. It's only extreme orthodox cults that glorified these stories to "historical history" and the consequence is that people like yourself start believing these myths and start educating others on the "facts" of the matter. I don't know about you, but if your facts are so factual, you should start looking at the nay-sayers and figure out if they hold up. Maybe there is a chance you get back to reality.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Kwek00 Thank you for a great response. However, it's usually pointless because people tend to follow religion for emotional reasons. They latch onto it, then go back later and find justification for their belief. It's very rare for someone to join a religion out of pure, cold logic. People claim that but I'm dubious.
William Lane Craig is a great example. You could read his Kalam Cosmological Explanation and think "wow, I don't agree with this guy but at least he's trying to use logic to reach a conclusion." But as it turns out, he converted to Christianity in high school because he met a girl who was Christian and her faith impressed him.
William Lane Craig is a great example. You could read his Kalam Cosmological Explanation and think "wow, I don't agree with this guy but at least he's trying to use logic to reach a conclusion." But as it turns out, he converted to Christianity in high school because he met a girl who was Christian and her faith impressed him.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@Ian123 Why would it be "an opinion". That's pretty much where everything goes wrong when it comes to toppics like this. It's about people and opinions, as if the truth can be found in an opinion. If tomorrow someone opinion is that you don't have to go to the doctor to have a chance of getting away from terminal cancer, how great is that opinion? When tomorrow someone has the opinion that the world is flat, how great is that opinion? Should we all respect these peoples opinion and let these opinions fester and grow and create movements? Just because we should all be respectfull for others opinions?
You tell me? But if your opinion is that it's okay to let people believe what they want to believe, and also let them unopposedly spread those opinions upon others without annyone saying: "maybe your opinion doesnt hold up in the real world?". Then I believe your opinion is dangerous and should be opposed at all times.
You tell me? But if your opinion is that it's okay to let people believe what they want to believe, and also let them unopposedly spread those opinions upon others without annyone saying: "maybe your opinion doesnt hold up in the real world?". Then I believe your opinion is dangerous and should be opposed at all times.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@Ian123 The moment your believe starts making claims on the material world, and we can start to measure it and actually research it. Your believe moves from something that can't be proven/disproven to a place where we can actually talk about how real it is. The moment we hit that point, your opinion can be disproven, and the "agree to disagree" option should leave the building. If you don't get why that is, then it has more to do with your wants then your honesty.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Kwek00 Religion is fine as long as it doesn't lead to violence and oppression. One of the people running for president, Pete Buttigieg, is a devout Christian, and I don't have any issues with that at all, because he has no intention of forcing his beliefs onto anyone else. Of course, certain aspects of Christianity - concern for the poor and downtrodden, for example - inform his worldview and would definitely influence his policies.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@LeopoldBloom That can all be true... And as long as your Buttigieg is open for a reasonable conversation and accepts objective truths that can be proven through science or factual data, then I'm all okay with that. As long as he keeps his believes as much inside his home and his personal sphere as possible, then I'm also okay with that. But thinking that this guys believes have no consequences at all, that is something that just doesnt work in the real world. If you have a believe set, you will act accordingly. The intensity or the range of what you believe however is important.
But in this particulair toppic, we have the delusional idea that the bible is a historical record of events. If you incorperate that idea in your believe systems, then you won't be open for a reasonable conversation, you won't be able to accept objective truths and at some point you will bring your extremism to the bargaining table. You can't blame people living in a distorted reality for doing the things they do because they follow rationally from what they believe. But not opposing these ideas and just tollerating them will create a potential for them spreading. Once you wake up in a world where a majority is totally detached from reality, then you'll understand how far tollerance has taken a society into madness.
But in this particulair toppic, we have the delusional idea that the bible is a historical record of events. If you incorperate that idea in your believe systems, then you won't be open for a reasonable conversation, you won't be able to accept objective truths and at some point you will bring your extremism to the bargaining table. You can't blame people living in a distorted reality for doing the things they do because they follow rationally from what they believe. But not opposing these ideas and just tollerating them will create a potential for them spreading. Once you wake up in a world where a majority is totally detached from reality, then you'll understand how far tollerance has taken a society into madness.
Carazaa · F
@LeopoldBloom I want god to bless me not curse me . I am copying here just a few of the miracles that God did for me. He says he doesn't hear prayers if we do not have faith but he heard my prayers. I had learned about tithing from the verse below when I was young..
[b]"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the LORD Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it."
[/b]
-to demonstrate how God has blessed me when I tithe: Here is a story for you. I was young and my husband left me and moved in with a girl down the street. I was young with two small kids and I cried out to God what can I do to be blessed.
And he showed me the verse in Malachi to tithe, so I gave 10% of my $400 I was making a month at the time. My rent was $550 so I did it on faith because I was going to be super short on rent.
Then a day or so before my rent was due, a lady knocked on my door and said. "I have a gift for you, $22.000 because you gave me a few rides last year to a nursing home." She said "My friend died and he gave me his money in his will, but I don't need it, because I am a millionaire." I could pay my rent. Praise God. He has promised "my own, will never beg for bread!"
Another answered prayer was when I was late for work when I was young and drove very fast 80 miles an hour onto a 5 lane freeway packed of cars and had to slam on my brakes because the traffic came to a stop. I couldn't get into the next lane because there was a big truck there so I and went spinning around 3 times and yelled "Please don't make me hit anyone God" and my car stopped miraculously exactly parallel less than an inch from the cement divider. The whole freeway stopped for me. I still can't figure how my car didn't hit anyone!
Another miracle is when I was working for a company and the boss had a problem with me. He had asked me to do something I thought was unethical and I refused, and he asked me to leave. I called a man who had asked me to work with his company on a contract basis a year ago, but he said absolutely, but he had to wait for a go ahead from the landlord to give me an office there. So I went home to just pray and wait and read my Bible. Well I waited and read for 10 hrs a day for a few months, not applying anywhere else because God told me in my heart not to worry. So he finally called and I moved in to the new office and worked with this company. After a month I had $20 in my account and my rent was due. I told the secretary that I couldn't pay my rent at 5 pm probably, but she said its only 10 am, and the rent is not due until 5 pm so don't worry because we had all prayed at the staff meeting. So I went back in my office. At 3 pm a man called and said that he wanted an appointment. I gave him one at 4 pm, and he came. He said I like you and I want to pay for the next few months for my teens to come to you and he gave me a few thousand dollars at 4:50 pm and I could pay my rent at 5pm. That year God increased my pay from $3000 to over $8000 a month. For some its not much but for me it was a lot!
🌷❤️🌷
[b]"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the LORD Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it."
[/b]
-to demonstrate how God has blessed me when I tithe: Here is a story for you. I was young and my husband left me and moved in with a girl down the street. I was young with two small kids and I cried out to God what can I do to be blessed.
And he showed me the verse in Malachi to tithe, so I gave 10% of my $400 I was making a month at the time. My rent was $550 so I did it on faith because I was going to be super short on rent.
Then a day or so before my rent was due, a lady knocked on my door and said. "I have a gift for you, $22.000 because you gave me a few rides last year to a nursing home." She said "My friend died and he gave me his money in his will, but I don't need it, because I am a millionaire." I could pay my rent. Praise God. He has promised "my own, will never beg for bread!"
Another answered prayer was when I was late for work when I was young and drove very fast 80 miles an hour onto a 5 lane freeway packed of cars and had to slam on my brakes because the traffic came to a stop. I couldn't get into the next lane because there was a big truck there so I and went spinning around 3 times and yelled "Please don't make me hit anyone God" and my car stopped miraculously exactly parallel less than an inch from the cement divider. The whole freeway stopped for me. I still can't figure how my car didn't hit anyone!
Another miracle is when I was working for a company and the boss had a problem with me. He had asked me to do something I thought was unethical and I refused, and he asked me to leave. I called a man who had asked me to work with his company on a contract basis a year ago, but he said absolutely, but he had to wait for a go ahead from the landlord to give me an office there. So I went home to just pray and wait and read my Bible. Well I waited and read for 10 hrs a day for a few months, not applying anywhere else because God told me in my heart not to worry. So he finally called and I moved in to the new office and worked with this company. After a month I had $20 in my account and my rent was due. I told the secretary that I couldn't pay my rent at 5 pm probably, but she said its only 10 am, and the rent is not due until 5 pm so don't worry because we had all prayed at the staff meeting. So I went back in my office. At 3 pm a man called and said that he wanted an appointment. I gave him one at 4 pm, and he came. He said I like you and I want to pay for the next few months for my teens to come to you and he gave me a few thousand dollars at 4:50 pm and I could pay my rent at 5pm. That year God increased my pay from $3000 to over $8000 a month. For some its not much but for me it was a lot!
🌷❤️🌷
LeopoldBloom · M
@Kwek00 Most liberal Christians do not take the Bible literally. Buttigieg is a member of a very liberal church, and is also openly gay and married to another man. If he is informed by his religion, it is in a positive direction for the good of society.
It's unreasonable to expect anyone to ignore their most fundamental beliefs. But what we don't want is a politician pushing dangerous and oppressive positions because their religion tells them to.
It's unreasonable to expect anyone to ignore their most fundamental beliefs. But what we don't want is a politician pushing dangerous and oppressive positions because their religion tells them to.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Carazaa Well that's great.
Are you aware that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and other religions also have miracles? How do you explain those? It's not like God rewards all Christians. Haiti is a very devout Christian country, and they were devastated by a hurricane not that long ago. You think those people didn't pray for the storm to miss them? Why were you rewarded, but not them?
It makes more sense to say that some people are religious and sometimes nice things happen to them, but these are pure coincidence.
Are you aware that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and other religions also have miracles? How do you explain those? It's not like God rewards all Christians. Haiti is a very devout Christian country, and they were devastated by a hurricane not that long ago. You think those people didn't pray for the storm to miss them? Why were you rewarded, but not them?
It makes more sense to say that some people are religious and sometimes nice things happen to them, but these are pure coincidence.
Carazaa · F
@LeopoldBloom I do not believe in any coincidences. There are many reasons God allows bad things to happen. "Jobs story" is one example. I have no idea if those in Haiti are born again Christians who are obedient to the Lord with strong faith. I feel very sad when anyone experiences tragedy, however God controls the storms and he allowed that storm to flatten the island and save some which was a miracle praise God. He stopped it on the US mainland and went north along the coast praise God.
Many were praying and he heard our prayers. One reason for bad disasters I have read in the Bible is for God warn people to repent before it is too late, and to get on their knees. If we are not saved God doesn't hear our prayers. If we are praying to "the Universal spirit" or " the storm gods" to save us from the storm they do not have ears nor the power to save us, only God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We MUST pray to Him, and Him alone with a [i]repenting[/i] and [i]humble[/i] heart for mercy and have [i]faith[/i] , and then He will hear us and then He alone has the power to save us from the storm. That I know. God says that our [i]faith[/i] can move mountains.
Many were praying and he heard our prayers. One reason for bad disasters I have read in the Bible is for God warn people to repent before it is too late, and to get on their knees. If we are not saved God doesn't hear our prayers. If we are praying to "the Universal spirit" or " the storm gods" to save us from the storm they do not have ears nor the power to save us, only God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We MUST pray to Him, and Him alone with a [i]repenting[/i] and [i]humble[/i] heart for mercy and have [i]faith[/i] , and then He will hear us and then He alone has the power to save us from the storm. That I know. God says that our [i]faith[/i] can move mountains.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@LeopoldBloom As I mentioned: "in this particulair case".
You can't really call the basic idea in this threat "liberal". I goes against scientific studies and it pushes a narrative that isn't supported by research. Annyone that still believes in liberalism would have a difficult time pushing that narrative. Of course "liberalism" and "religious believes" don't mix. Ussually religious embrace some liberal believes but they never call themselves "liberal". Christian-Democrats for instance work within a liberal framework, but they don't belong to the liberal family.
[quote]It's unreasonable to expect anyone to ignore their most fundamental beliefs.[/quote]
Yup... That's why other people need to object when crazy things are uttered.
You can't really call the basic idea in this threat "liberal". I goes against scientific studies and it pushes a narrative that isn't supported by research. Annyone that still believes in liberalism would have a difficult time pushing that narrative. Of course "liberalism" and "religious believes" don't mix. Ussually religious embrace some liberal believes but they never call themselves "liberal". Christian-Democrats for instance work within a liberal framework, but they don't belong to the liberal family.
[quote]It's unreasonable to expect anyone to ignore their most fundamental beliefs.[/quote]
Yup... That's why other people need to object when crazy things are uttered.