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guymanly2 · 31-35, M
I keep my life out of Jesus, I can control it.
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helenS · 36-40, F
@guymanly2 The Gnostic approach to religion is dualistic. There is the creator of this world, the "Demiurg", who is horrible and revengeful, destroying cities if he does not like them. His ethics consist only of revenge and "justice". The demiurg also created humans. Humans have a soul, and this is where they transcend this world.
The Far God has nothing to do with this world. He discovered this world, and found those humans, and their souls. He felt sorry for them and tried to release them from the chains of this physical world and the Demiurg. But the Demiurg did not want to let them go. He wanted the Far God to give him something in return. So the Far God sacrificed his own son, Jesus Christ, to the Demiurg. That's why Jesus died on the cross. Not for our sins, but to satisfy the Demiurg.
The Far God has nothing to do with this world. He discovered this world, and found those humans, and their souls. He felt sorry for them and tried to release them from the chains of this physical world and the Demiurg. But the Demiurg did not want to let them go. He wanted the Far God to give him something in return. So the Far God sacrificed his own son, Jesus Christ, to the Demiurg. That's why Jesus died on the cross. Not for our sins, but to satisfy the Demiurg.
@helenS I think you should consider the flip-side of your reasoning. People are always so eager to fault God. To be fair, we have to look at both sides and get the facts, before we can get a clear understanding. How ‘bout us?
We accuse a just, perfect, sinless God of violence, but we would do well to look at our own lives, before accusing Him. We spit upon Him, beat Him to a pulp, denied Him, rejected Him, mocked Him, and even today, cause wars, rape, murder, steal, commit adultery and fornication, lie, lust, cheat, betray, the list goes on. We are not holier than Almighty God, nor smarter or wiser. If we say we are, we are liars.
God is fair. Sin, is not! Christians of that day, stood up to their enemies, because they didn’t want to watch their children and wives ravaged and killed. Most of them perished by the sword. There is no scripture stating that it’s a sin to fight back in a violent way against an attacker. God was keeping His promise to protect His children against their enemies in time of war.
Several times in the Gospels, Jesus’s enemies attempted to take His life, but instead of striking them down as He well could have, each time He eluded them. Sometimes His apostles vigorously defended themselves, yet many died as martyrs, while offering no resistance. They walked and talked with Jesus, and were willing to die for their faith in Him...all in their personal, written testimonies.
As far as God killing children, the Massacre of the Innocents describes infanticide by Herod the Great, the Roman-appointed King of the Jews. According to the Gospel of Matthew, Herod ordered the execution of all young male children, two years old and under in the vicinity of Bethlehem, so as to avoid the loss of his throne to a newborn King of the Jews, Jesus, whose birth had been announced to him by the Magi. It is fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy.
Though God sometimes used warfare to bring justice upon entire societies and political structures, this does not mean he judged every specific person who was part of that group. The societal values that produced these detestable acts were the target of God’s actions. Unfortunately, some “innocent” people faced the consequences, but such, regrettably, are the ramifications of living in a world entirely corrupted by human evil, and nature of justice.
A modern example is World War II. Most would agree that the nations of Germany and Japan needed to be resisted, defeated, and held responsible for their aggressive and destructive acts, even if it meant that some civilians of those societies suffered consequences they did not explicitly deserve. Such are the consequences of war.
God did indeed often use warfare as an instrument of justice. In the Old Testament era, the people that God commanded Israel to fight against, had often committed extremely wicked acts. They had been warned for YEARS to clean up their act, but refused. They could not be allowed to continue in their sin and bring corruption to future generations.
Do we really hate evil? Or do we tolerate it as long as it doesn’t bother us? And what do we do with things we hate? Overlook them? No! This has been the pattern of society. And we fault God. Who are we to question a perfect God? Are we smarter and wiser than He?
We accuse a just, perfect, sinless God of violence, but we would do well to look at our own lives, before accusing Him. We spit upon Him, beat Him to a pulp, denied Him, rejected Him, mocked Him, and even today, cause wars, rape, murder, steal, commit adultery and fornication, lie, lust, cheat, betray, the list goes on. We are not holier than Almighty God, nor smarter or wiser. If we say we are, we are liars.
God is fair. Sin, is not! Christians of that day, stood up to their enemies, because they didn’t want to watch their children and wives ravaged and killed. Most of them perished by the sword. There is no scripture stating that it’s a sin to fight back in a violent way against an attacker. God was keeping His promise to protect His children against their enemies in time of war.
Several times in the Gospels, Jesus’s enemies attempted to take His life, but instead of striking them down as He well could have, each time He eluded them. Sometimes His apostles vigorously defended themselves, yet many died as martyrs, while offering no resistance. They walked and talked with Jesus, and were willing to die for their faith in Him...all in their personal, written testimonies.
As far as God killing children, the Massacre of the Innocents describes infanticide by Herod the Great, the Roman-appointed King of the Jews. According to the Gospel of Matthew, Herod ordered the execution of all young male children, two years old and under in the vicinity of Bethlehem, so as to avoid the loss of his throne to a newborn King of the Jews, Jesus, whose birth had been announced to him by the Magi. It is fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy.
Though God sometimes used warfare to bring justice upon entire societies and political structures, this does not mean he judged every specific person who was part of that group. The societal values that produced these detestable acts were the target of God’s actions. Unfortunately, some “innocent” people faced the consequences, but such, regrettably, are the ramifications of living in a world entirely corrupted by human evil, and nature of justice.
A modern example is World War II. Most would agree that the nations of Germany and Japan needed to be resisted, defeated, and held responsible for their aggressive and destructive acts, even if it meant that some civilians of those societies suffered consequences they did not explicitly deserve. Such are the consequences of war.
God did indeed often use warfare as an instrument of justice. In the Old Testament era, the people that God commanded Israel to fight against, had often committed extremely wicked acts. They had been warned for YEARS to clean up their act, but refused. They could not be allowed to continue in their sin and bring corruption to future generations.
Do we really hate evil? Or do we tolerate it as long as it doesn’t bother us? And what do we do with things we hate? Overlook them? No! This has been the pattern of society. And we fault God. Who are we to question a perfect God? Are we smarter and wiser than He?
helenS · 36-40, F
@guymanly2 Gnosticism is mainly a thing of the 2nd century. Almost all original sources of Gnosticism are "lost" (= destroyed). The most important modern book about Gnosticism is by a certain Hans Jonas, "The Gnostic Religion: The Message of the Alien God and the Beginnings of Christianity", which LadyGrace would certainly consider blasphemous. A more light-hearted, easy-to-read approach to Gnosticism is "The Gnostic New Age", by April DeConick. Both are available on Amazon.
And then there are, of course, Christian books written by the Fathers of the Church (religious teachers from the early days of Christianity), such as the "Refutation of all Heresies", by Hippolytus of Rome, a book in which, I assume, LadyGrace would find no doctrinal errors. The book is surprisingly informative and well-written.
And then there are, of course, Christian books written by the Fathers of the Church (religious teachers from the early days of Christianity), such as the "Refutation of all Heresies", by Hippolytus of Rome, a book in which, I assume, LadyGrace would find no doctrinal errors. The book is surprisingly informative and well-written.
The Gnostic approach to religion is dualistic. There is the creator of this world, the "Demiurg", who is horrible and revengeful, destroying cities if he does not like them. His ethics consist only of revenge and "justice". The demiurg also created humans. Humans have a soul, and this is where they transcend this world.
The Far God has nothing to do with this world. He discovered this world, and found those humans, and their souls. He felt sorry for them and tried to release them from the chains of this physical world and the Demiurg. But the Demiurg did not want to let them go. He wanted the Far God to give him something in return. So the Far God sacrificed his own son, Jesus Christ, to the Demiurg. That's why Jesus died on the cross. Not for our sins, but to satisfy the Demiurg.
The Far God has nothing to do with this world. He discovered this world, and found those humans, and their souls. He felt sorry for them and tried to release them from the chains of this physical world and the Demiurg. But the Demiurg did not want to let them go. He wanted the Far God to give him something in return. So the Far God sacrificed his own son, Jesus Christ, to the Demiurg. That's why Jesus died on the cross. Not for our sins, but to satisfy the Demiurg.
Nothing in God’s Word mentions "Demiurg" or the “Far God”. Nothing. Where did you get this from? What source? Because it is not biblical. God’s Word mentions Satan and also Jesus or His Father. None of these which you speak. It is man-made philosophy, far from God’s Word. Do you know where Christianity comes from? Christ Himself. His Spirit spoke to mankind, or we would be ignorant of Him. “Christian” simply means “Follower of Christ”.
@helenS
Gnosticism is mainly a thing of the 2nd century. Almost all original sources of Gnosticism are "lost" (= destroyed). The most important modern book about Gnosticism is by a certain Hans Jonas, "The Gnostic Religion: The Message of the Alien God and the Beginnings of Christianity", which LadyGrace would certainly consider blasphemous. A more light-hearted, easy-to-read approach to Gnosticism is "The Gnostic New Age", by April DeConick. Both are available on Amazon.
And then there are, of course, Christian books written by the Fathers of the Church (religious teachers from the early days of Christianity), such as the "Refutation of all Heresies", by Hippolytus of Rome, a book in which, I assume, LadyGrace would find no doctrinal errors. The book is surprisingly informative and well-written.
@helenS And then there are, of course, Christian books written by the Fathers of the Church (religious teachers from the early days of Christianity), such as the "Refutation of all Heresies", by Hippolytus of Rome, a book in which, I assume, LadyGrace would find no doctrinal errors. The book is surprisingly informative and well-written.
I resent your assumptions about my preferences and spreading false doctrine on my post. Attributing evil things to God IS blasphemous in God’s eyes.
helenS · 36-40, F
@LadyGrace "Where did you get this from? What source?
— Gnosticism is mainly a thing of the 2nd century. Almost all original sources of Gnosticism are "lost" (= destroyed), although the Nag Hammadi library has survived as a collection of early Christian and Gnostic texts, discovered in the 20th century.
The most important modern book about Gnosticism is by scholar Hans Jonas, "The Gnostic Religion: The Message of the Alien God and the Beginnings of Christianity". A more light-hearted, easy-to-read approach to Gnosticism is "The Gnostic New Age", by April DeConick. The latter book is inadequate though. Both are available on Amazon.
And then there are, of course, orthodox Christian books, written by the Fathers of the Church, such as the "Refutation of all Heresies", by Hippolytus of Rome, a book in which, I assume, you would find no doctrinal errors. The book is surprisingly informative and well-written, although, of course, biased.
Some scholars believe that parts of the Gospel of St John may be influenced by Gnosticism, such as John 8:44, where Jesus says, to the Jews:
"You belong to your father, the devil (= the Bad God, the Demiurg), and you want to carry out your father’s desires (= they refuse to follow Jesus, the apostle of the Alien God). He was a murderer from the beginning (the Father of the Jews was a murderer!), not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him (= because the Demiurg is inferior). When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
I hope you are not upset dear LadyGrace. If you want me to stop I'll do immediately.
[Edit: part of this comes from my reply to the other guy.]
— Gnosticism is mainly a thing of the 2nd century. Almost all original sources of Gnosticism are "lost" (= destroyed), although the Nag Hammadi library has survived as a collection of early Christian and Gnostic texts, discovered in the 20th century.
The most important modern book about Gnosticism is by scholar Hans Jonas, "The Gnostic Religion: The Message of the Alien God and the Beginnings of Christianity". A more light-hearted, easy-to-read approach to Gnosticism is "The Gnostic New Age", by April DeConick. The latter book is inadequate though. Both are available on Amazon.
And then there are, of course, orthodox Christian books, written by the Fathers of the Church, such as the "Refutation of all Heresies", by Hippolytus of Rome, a book in which, I assume, you would find no doctrinal errors. The book is surprisingly informative and well-written, although, of course, biased.
Some scholars believe that parts of the Gospel of St John may be influenced by Gnosticism, such as John 8:44, where Jesus says, to the Jews:
"You belong to your father, the devil (= the Bad God, the Demiurg), and you want to carry out your father’s desires (= they refuse to follow Jesus, the apostle of the Alien God). He was a murderer from the beginning (the Father of the Jews was a murderer!), not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him (= because the Demiurg is inferior). When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
I hope you are not upset dear LadyGrace. If you want me to stop I'll do immediately.
[Edit: part of this comes from my reply to the other guy.]
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