Science Really Does Point To God [Spirituality & Religion]

@MarmeeMarch The point is to prove evolution false. The rest of it is as you say.

@hippyjoe1955 IDK - there is a lot pointing to ev

@MarmeeMarch Actually there is almost none. If you squint your eyes just right and dim the lights sufficiently you can almost make it believable. In the light of day it is pure nonsense.

Ive told you many times, Endogenous retroviruses prove humans and chimps had a common ancestor. The logic of modern genetic science is based on proof of this sort. Stop lying.@hippyjoe1955

@MarmeeMarch [quote]The Earth is not 'hanging on nothing' (nor is anything else). The Earth is falling towards the Sun[/quote]

You're right. I'm here to prove God but get at the truth with these skeptics. I know that God lives and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I also have God's Holy Spirit of Truth abiding in me.

@redredred No they don't but nice of you to play the fool. What is truly amazing is the dissimilarity between Apes and humans. If we had a common ancestor one would think there would be a lot more in common than there actually is.

Im seeing a great deal of commonality in reading your responses. And, yes, my geneticist daughter confirms the ERVs conclusively prove that Chimps and Humans had a common ancestor. BTW, Whats your PhD in?@hippyjoe1955

@redredred So your geneticist daughter is misinformed. Not surprising she went to the wrong school.

And again, at what school did you get your PhD?@hippyjoe1955

@redredred So you think a phd proves something? If I quoted a Phd holder (which I did) that said that a common ancestor would mean we have a lot more DNA in common than we do your response is????

So, at what school did you gat any credit in a life science? Botany? Ichtheology? Anything? Do you have any college credit in a science?@hippyjoe1955

@redredred So you doubt those who have a lot more training and experience than your daughter because your daughter got a phd? Too Funny.

Once again, did you even take (not pass, just take) high school biology?Have you ever solved a sudoku puzzle? Can you double a recipe's measurements successfully? @hippyjoe1955

@redredred PMSL - thank you for amusing me.

@hippyjoe1955 [quote]would mean we have a lot more DNA in common[/quote]

If chimpanzees and humans had any more DNA commonality, they’d be the same species.

The point of ERVs... and it’s a point you continually ignore... is that the ERVs are on [i]exactly the same[/i] base pairs. Out of 3.2 billion possible base pairs, the ERVs are on the exact same base pairs for both species.

@hippyjoe1955 Still denying the evidence? No problem... let’s look at some more

@newjaninev2 Look at what you think is evidence? No thanks. Common DNA is indicative of nothing beyond a Creator using the same code for the same function in a different life form. Kind of like Office Word uses some of the same code Office Excel uses. One program didn't evolve from the other one creative force wrote both programs and reused the code. You do realize that DNA is code don't you? It contains millions of instructions based on information. Where does information come from? Here is a hint: [b][u]Not From Evolution[/u][/b]. In fact natural selection destroys information not increases it but anti theists like you will never admit it. Oh well have a nice flight to Saturn

@hippyjoe1955 I’ll lead you through it.

ERVs are species-wide, species-specific scars formed when a virus attacks a species’ genome and is subsequently rendered inert. The scars affect specific base-pairs of nucleotides.
Humans and chimpanzees each have around 3.2 billion base pairs.
The ERV scars are on [b]exactly[/b] the same base-pairs.

Pin back your creationist cloth ears and try to comprehend that.

The ERV scars are on [b]exactly[/b] the same base-pairs.

How do you account for that?

I’ll repeat the question, because I know you will try to ignore it.

How do you account for that?

_____________________________

While we’re giving you a reality lesson, learn this: [b]DNA isn’t a code[/b]

@newjaninev2 DNA is code. If you can't understand that then there is no point carrying on any other discussion. Have a nice flight to Saturn.

@hippyjoe1955 Nothing to say about ERVs?

Very well... we’ll move on to why DNA isn’t a code.

A code is a symbol for a symbol.

Any object can be represented by a symbol. This is the [i]primary[/i] symbol.
The primary symbol is not a code. It merely stands in place of an object.
A code stands [i]in place of[/i] a symbol: [b]it is a symbol for a symbol[/b].

For many humans, an object with feathers (a real object... demonstrable and observable) can be represented by the symbol ‘bird’.
That symbol isn’t a code… it’s a representation (the primary symbol)
For computers (machines designed by intelligent beings with a goal), the symbol ‘bird’ might also be represented by
01100010011010010111001001100100
[i]That’s[/i] a code, because it is a symbol for a symbol.

A nucleotide can be represented by a letter e.g. guanine is represented by G.
For one species of intelligent beings, G is the primary symbol (representation) of an object… in this case, a nitrogenous base that can be part of a nucleotide, and which forms three hydrogen bonds with cytosine.
Such primary symbols can used to represent a series of completely localised, tightly constrained, chemical interactions, and any series of such interactions can be represented by primary symbols e.g. GATACA
What you may notice is that [i]this does not then progress to any form of secondary symbol[/i]

There is no symbol for which this is a symbol… [b]there is no code[/b]

[i]quod erat demonstrandum[/i]

@hippyjoe1955 Insults, diversions, and distractions coming in... three, two, one...

@hippyjoe1955 Genes code for proteins. That’s pretty much all they do (they have quite dull social lives, and don’t seem to have hobbies or outside interests). Those proteins are built up from amino acids.

The genes comprise large numbers of base-pairs, which are simply guanine matched with cytosine and adenine matched with thymine. The human genome contains around 3.2 billion of these base pairs (the largest we’ve found so far is that of the flowering plant [i]Paris japonica[/i], which has 150 billion base pairs. The marbled lungfish has 133 billion base pairs).

As I said, proteins are built up from amino acids. Each amino acid that is used to build the proteins is specified by three base-pairs (those blocks of three base-pairs are called codons).

Let’s look at cytochrome c (we could use any number of such proteins, but I have a fondness for cytochrome c… I like the alliteration)

The cytochrome c protein is built up from around 100 amino acids.
This means that there are 10E135 possible ways that the amino acids could be arranged… but not all of those arrangements would work, of course.
However, because there’s a high level of redundancy in the construction of cytosine c (and all proteins), a stunning 10E93 variants would still be functional.
So that’s 100,000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000 possible ways that DNA could code for functional cytosine c.

Time to make some predictions in accordance with the Theory of Evolution, don’t you think?

1. Because evolution began from a tightly limited range of organisms, only one of those possible functional variants will have been passed down over the last 3.5 billion years.

2. Because of point mutations (among other factors), there should be evidence of extremely slight variation that has crept in over the last 3.5 billion years… after all, even high-fidelity copying systems aren’t perfect (and it would be suspicious if they appeared to be so)

3. That variation should be negligible for species that have comparatively recent common ancestors, and [b]increase[/b] between species with more distant common ancestors… while still remaining negligible (The process is remarkably stable, so we wouldn’t expect too many of the 10E93 functional variants to have appeared).

So, what do we find?

How many amino acid differences are there between humans and other species?
To make things interesting, let’s list some species in order of [b]how long it has been[/b] since we shared a common ancestor with each species, and then see how many amino acid differences there are between us and that species.
Chimpanzee = 0
Rhesus Monkey = 1
Rabbit = 9
Cow = 10
Pigeon = 12
Bullfrog = 20
Fruit Fly = 24
Wheat Germ = 37
Yeast = 42

Evidence-based simplicity and elegance… common ancestry

@newjaninev2 You don't know a thing about DNA and deny it being code. How stupid is that? Seriously. Why do they do gene splicing? It brings in new code (information) that helps the life form perform better in the environment we want it to grow in. Where I live we grow a lot of canola. The more modern stuff has pig DNA spliced into it so it is resistant to some commonly used herbicides. How does it work? The information in the pig's DNA causes the plant to become resistant.

@hippyjoe1955 Oh dear, I can see we now need to do some work around the word ‘information’

Tomorrow. It’s late here, and I need to sleep.

We’ll pick this up again in the morning.

In the interim, you might like to specify what it is for which the primary symbols ATCG are a secondary symbol.

You obviously have no idea what it is or the original of it.