Is Islam worth trying to reform? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Peaceful As if we can't do both?

@BlueVeins what exactly needs reforming about Islam?

@Peaceful Negative attitudes about homosexuality, apostasy, and sex-positivism, which frequently lead to detrimental government policy.

@BlueVeins plenty of religions have negative attitudes against homosexuality. Which saddens me.
The Muslims I know are quite open minded, loving, kind and generous. They do not judge my choices, they let me be me.

Why can you not follow the same lead and let them be free to practice their beliefs as well?

Fun fact: when the government was shut down this most recent time? You know who went in every weekend and cleaned several parks across the US? Muslims.

@Peaceful I never suggested that Muslims shouldn't be free to practice their beliefs. I'm saying we should persuade Muslims to adopt more progressive values, so such as to improve their ideologies. And yeah, there are other religions that have negative attitudes about gay people, but there's no religion of a similar size with similarly bad attitudes on the subject. Even Christianity's homophobia is put to shame by the tremendous hate found in Muslim populations.

@BlueVeins how about we persuade you first with more progressive views first and see how you like it.

@Peaceful Are you arguing that it's more progressive to not argue about progressivism? Because it sounds suspiciously like that.

@BlueVeins doesn't feel good does it? It isn't our business to get involved with. Our only job is to try our best to live peacefully with one another as best we can.

@Peaceful The only thing about that argument that doesn't feel good is that it's completely hypocritical. Arguing against persuasion itself is a refutation of itself; if you held the values you claimed to hold, we wouldn't be having this conversation to begin with. [quote] Our only job is to try our best to live peacefully with one another as best we can.[/quote] Maybe if you're a lazy fuck. If you don't want to roll up your sleeves, the least you can do is stay out of our way while the rest of us work to liberate innocent people from the clutches of conservativism and religious oppression.

@BlueVeins I've never heard any of my Muslim friends ask to be liberated. What they do ask for is tolerance and to be respected like others are.

You are woefully misguided. Maybe get to know some actual Muslim's and gain some perspective. 🤔

@Peaceful I like how you kind of just assume that I don't have any Muslim friends. Maybe don't stereotype people when you don't know anything about them. I agree with tolerating Islam; I just don't agree with tolerating intolerance itself.

@BlueVeins are they asking for you to liberate them????

@Peaceful The gay ones sure are, and the apostates sure are. Do you have any idea how traumatizing to be literally hunted down and put in a cage for your beliefs or sexual orientation?

@BlueVeins I meant your Muslim friends you said you have. Have they asked you to liberate them?

@Peaceful If one man is murdering another and the second asks you for help, don't you think that's a good time to set your reservations about interfering with the first's life choices aside for a moment?

@BlueVeins do you always answer questions with a question?

Let's try again.

You said they need liberating and that you have Muslim friend's.
Have your Muslim friends come to you and asked you to liberate them?????

@Peaceful Of course not, but their victims ask to be liberated on quite a frequent basis. Your turn.

@BlueVeins you realize gay's in Brazil are beaten to an inch of their life? And of they are caught again with their partner they are both murdered? Lesbian women in Brazil are gang raped to convince them to become straight.
And in Russia, if you are gay, you are beaten and eventually killed, too.

This isn't exclusive to Islam. So why only mention them?

@Peaceful You're right about Brazil; Brazilian Christians are dangerous to Muslims. Not nearly as dangerous as say, Iranian, Saudi Arabian, or Pakistani Muslims, but you have a point nonetheless. Russian violence against gay people, on the other hand, seems to be focused in Chechnya, meaning that Muslims are the prime culprit there. And for the record, it's not like I only oppose Islamic homophobia; I've had more than my fair share of disputes with Christians on the subject.

@BlueVeins hearts need to be reformed amongst many people is really the underlying message here.

@Peaceful I would agree, but especially Islam. Islam has by far the largest problem, and needs to be addressed as a special case.

@BlueVeins what about the millions of Muslim's in internment camps in China?
And what about the Rohingya from Myanmar?

@Peaceful I probably should have said that Communism is on a similar scale to Islam in terms of problems, especially with North Korea and stuff. I'd argue that people living under Communist states other than the DPRK largely have more freedom in the contemporary world, but ignoring the DPRK is kind of dishonest anyway. As for the Myanmar crisis, it's a horrific thing, but the scale isn't really on par with modern Islamic attrocities.