Why Is It So Hard? [Spirituality & Religion]

@DrSunnyTheSkeptic [quote]You and the millions of other cahoots out there claiming their god is the real deal, that's for starters. Other that no god has ever done anything for humanity to save them from suffering by other humans. Like a mother who gave birth and then forsake her child, would you love that mother?[/quote]

Yahweh is the real deal. No created god can offer salvation as He does to anyone who'll receive it.

"Can a woman forget her nursing child, and not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yet I will not forget you. See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; your walls are continually before Me." (Isaiah 49:15)

Why that woman forsook her child, only God knows. But, God created her just like He created you and loves her just as much as He loves you. And, He loves you no less than He loves Jesus.

@GodSpeed63 The Romans said the same about their gods, so did the ancient Greeks, the ancient Egyptians also did the Norsemen. Where are their Gods? IF your God is real show him to me.

@DrSunnyTheSkeptic [quote]IF your God is real show him to me[/quote]

Just look in the mirror, He created you in his image like He created all of us.

@GodSpeed63 That doesn't count. That's generic god talk

@DrSunnyTheSkeptic [quote]That doesn't count.[/quote]

Sure it does. You're living proof that Yahweh lives.

@GodSpeed63 No, I, you and other people are a product of genetic adaptation. If your Yahwe was real how do you explain cancer, viruses, bacteria and all other things that can kill us. Then god would be a psychopath!

@DrSunnyTheSkeptic [quote]...also did the Norsemen. Where are their Gods? [/quote]

@DrSunnyTheSkeptic [quote] If your Yahwe was real how do you explain cancer, viruses, bacteria and all other things that can kill us. [/quote]

In the beginning, God created everything perfect. Man was never meant to have diseases or viruses or injuries or even death. Those things came as a result of sin which caused the human race to fall and everything with it. Don't blame God for man's wickedness.

@suzie1960 Time to go to bed, Suzie Q.

@GodSpeed63 [quote] Man was never meant to have diseases or viruses or injuries or even death. Those things came as a result of sin which caused the human race to fall and everything with it. Don't blame God for man's wickedness.[/quote]

So a child dying of a painful disease is an indication of that child's sin? How can an infant be sinful?

@GodSpeed63 Night, night then. Has matron given you your medication?

@suzie1960 [quote]Night, night then.[/quote]

Have a great night, Suzie Q.

@GodSpeed63 Actually if all the parasites went extinct it would be really bad because bacteria and parasites have their place in evolution. You should look it up, it's very interesting. Not all of them are "wicked," while bacteria can help fight disease.

[quote]Man was never meant to have diseases or viruses or injuries or even death. Those things came as a result of sin which caused the human race to fall and everything with it. Don't blame God for man's wickedness.[/quote]

@SatanBurger But, prior to the fall, all living things were peaceful vegetarians living in perfect harmony. It was only after the fall that living things started eating each other. Or so the propaganda goes.

@Bushranger Even vegetarians kill plants and there immune systems kill even good peaceful bacteria. So there is still death. Life is the number one cause of death.

@Bushranger As long as there's been order, there's been chaos and chaos does have patterns as shown by mathematics. I'm not saying anything is intelligent (or not intelligent,) just that living in harmony is statistically impossible just for the chaos factor alone, it's why there's no such thing as a utopia.

@canusernamebemyusername @SatanBurger Ah, you two obviously don't understand. God can do whatever He wants, whenever he wants. Prior to the fall, there was no death... Hang on, but the plants were eaten, so they had to die. Maybe the plants were like Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr who could come back to life after being eaten. But that raises the issue of considering the possibility of another religion.

God must be able to overcome chaos, otherwise there wouldn't have been total peace and harmony in the Garden.... But was the Garden real? What about the Sumerian Garden, did it exist too?

All too confusing for this poor little atheist

@Bushranger I highly doubt the existence of Adam and Eve but let's assume the story is real just for fun. The people in the garden would have been like children if it was a utopia. I can only assume that in this utopia, there would be no disease, no war, no conflict etc.

They were all there and there was nothing at all.

Well people only learn through experience and if we don't have any experience or knowledge, we're essentially ignorant and ignorant people do bad things out of.. well, ignorance because how would you know what was right or wrong?

Technically God could tell you to sacrifice someone, eat all their cereal and take away their birthday and you wouldn't know the difference because you never had the experience to know what was going on in the first place.

So it's a paradox in my opinion?

Semantics do matter to me, the bible seems to be implying the exact opposite of a utopia but rather a dystopia which is funny because in all literature, that's all a utopia ever turns out to be for the exact reason above.

Anyways the whole Fall thing kinds of reminds me of what James C. Scott called [b]the public transcript[/b], like an old slave photo from the 1940s where all the slaves were smiling but we now know that they were smiling because they were forced to.

It wasn't exactly like they had a choice, however the public transcripts allows oppressors to seem favorable to the public and so gives these people plausible deniability.

@Bushranger And plants that die and relive only to get eaten again? I think I'll never think of salads the same way again lol 😂

@SatanBurger Utopias are good in principle, but I tend to like a bit of variety in my life. Have you ever thought about how Adam and Eve (remember, Adam and Eve were the only people created in the beginning) survived after being kicked out of the Garden? I mean to say, they were in a place where everything was provided for them so they didn't have to grow food. Then, all of a sudden, they were put into the real world where it's look after yourself or starve to death. Now, neither of them have any experience in growing crops, catching, killing and butchering animals, but they manage to survive and raise to children. One gets killed by his brother and the other one goes on to marry a woman from another tribe. Now, hang on, weren't Adam and Eve the only two humans created, oh well, obviously not.

Ok, I've been reading some Creationist websites just for fun (full disclosure here, I should really say trying to read them because they are painful), one said that Adam and Eve would have been able to teach themselves about agriculture because, think about it, if you or I were put in that situation we'd be able to do so. I nearly wet myself laughing at that one. Even with around 23,000 years of agriculture behind us, I would challenge most people to be able to figure it out quickly enough not to starve to death.

Sorry, got carried away. I'm just gobsmacked that there are people who take this as being historical fact. I've got now problem with the Bible being a moral guide for its time, just as I have no problem with someone believing in God but, seriously, there has to be some logic and common sense to it all.

@Bushranger Wow creationist sites? You're a brave soul to venture into that void my friend but honestly I would have the same reaction. As much as I would love to be taught how to hunt, live off the land and be agricultural (I've often thought about taking classes but their expensive,) those are things you learn through generations. Hunting is apart of families and tribes, it's a learned behavior. If you've never learned it, you're basically screwed.

Bush crafting takes a lot of time and practice, you don't just become Indiana Jones or something. There's no way!

I'd theorize that if the world ended and I survived by random improbable chance, I'd probably die horribly because I'd become so desperate and wouldn't know how to hunt animals, I'd probably either eat the animals I could catch raw or drink animal blood.

Then get a disease and die in a horrible fashion or get some prion disease and go crazy slowly lol.

All just from trying to survive..

Sounds a bit melodramatic but that's much more to reality than becoming Indiana Jones overnight lol.

@SatanBurger Extra points for mentioning prions lol.

I have done some shooting and rabbit trapping. I've worked on farms and have killed and butchered animals but, without the technology I'm familiar with, I'd be lost. I might be able to construct a rabbit snare, but only because I've seen the technology. Obviously, someone figured out how to do it in the past, but I bet there were a lot of false starts before it worked properly. I really can't imagine two people getting it all together in one lifetime. Of course, creationists would say that Adam and Eve lived for multiple centuries, but the reality is if they couldn't eat, they wouldn't live.

@GodSpeed63 So screw little children with leukemia, they're goddamn sinners, they surely deserve early death in that logic.

@SatanBurger I don't know about parasites, they do nothing else but harm but I agree about bacteria. If there were no bacteria we wouldnt enjoy things like alcohol, cheeze and other fermentables, also we'd have constant diarrhea and there would be no herbivore mammals because mammals alone are incapable of digesting cellulose.

@DrSunnyTheSkeptic Yep, and all the other cancers and diseases that kills children. Obviously they have original sin so don't deserve to live. Sorry, but that's just wrong.