Can we have a friendly conversation about the LDS church? [Spirituality & Religion]

@MartinTheFirst Latter Day Saints. ( Mormonism)

@sweetiepoo oh. Well i dont know why they believe whatever they believe. However according to new translations of the Bible it says that Jesus was the word and that he was "a god". It's many times over said in the Bible that Jehovah, the true God is above Jesus christ and that Jesus is his creation.

@MartinTheFirst Can you share me where it says "a god". every translation simply says "God" there is much more in the Bible that explains why Jesus is "God"

@sweetiepoo Of course. Let me find the scripture. And no there are translations that translate it differently. The king james version for an example is dated and have many translatory errors.

And jesus himself even says that God is above himself.

@MartinTheFirst yes, of course, God, The Father is.

@sweetiepoo God, Jehovah is.

@MartinTheFirst Are you a Jehovah's witness? Just curious.

@sweetiepoo Indeed I am, but you too as a christian should know that Jehovah is the name of our God

@sweetiepoo John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Notice the separation between the Word and God. The word was with God, and the word was a god.

@MartinTheFirst Well, actually, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and God gave his name to Moses, referring to himself as the I Am, or Yahweh.

@sweetiepoo Exactly, Jehovah is the translation of Yahweh which is the a translation of YHWH which is the translation of the original hebrew characters that no one truly knows how to pronounce.

@MartinTheFirst Going back a little, in the KJV of the Bible, it says in John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Also, If you have a moment, would you take a moment to read this:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jehovah.html

The question asks, Is Jehovah the true name of God. It provides biblical references and I think you would find it interesting.

@sweetiepoo No the question it asks is how is YHWH pronounced. No one knows how it's pronounced. That's why we add vowels to it, making it either Yahweh or Jehovah.

@MartinTheFirst Ok, well, how it is actually pronounced, is not what the important question is. It is the deity of Christ, because through him we are saved.

@sweetiepoo Indeed, it is not important how we pronounce it. Define "deity of Christ"

@MartinTheFirst The Word was God. Jesus was the Word. The trinity ( The GodHead is Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the Father. 1 God in 3 persons.

@MartinTheFirst In addition to Jesus’ specific claims about Himself, His disciples also acknowledged the deity of Christ. They claimed that Jesus had the right to forgive sins—something only God can do—as it is God who is offended by sin (Acts 5:31; Colossians 3:13; Psalm 130:4; Jeremiah 31:34). In close connection with this last claim, Jesus is also said to be the one who will “judge the living and the dead” (2 Timothy 4:1). Thomas cried out to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). Paul calls Jesus “great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13) and points out that prior to His incarnation Jesus existed in the “form of God” (Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus: “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever” (Hebrews 1:8). John states that “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God” (John 1:1). Examples of Scriptures that teach the deity of Christ are many (see Revelation 1:17, 2:8, 22:13; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 2:6-8; Psalm 18:2, 95:1; 1 Peter 5:4; Hebrews 13:20), but even one of these is enough to show that Christ was considered to be God by His followers.

Jesus is also given titles that are unique to YHWH (the formal name of God) in the Old Testament. The Old Testament title “redeemer” (Psalm 130:7; Hosea 13:14) is used of Jesus in the New Testament (Titus 2:13; Revelation 5:9). Jesus is called Immanuel—“God with us”—in Matthew 1. In Zechariah 12:10, it is YHWH who says, “They will look on me, the one they have pierced.” But the New Testament applies this to Jesus’ crucifixion (John 19:37; Revelation 1:7). If it is YHWH who is pierced and looked upon, and Jesus was the one pierced and looked upon, then Jesus is YHWH. Paul interprets Isaiah 45:22-23 as applying to Jesus in Philippians 2:10-11. Further, Jesus’ name is used alongside God’s in prayer “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2). This would be blasphemy if Christ were not deity. The name of Jesus appears with God's in Jesus' commanded to baptize “in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19; see also 2 Corinthians 13:14).

Actions that can be accomplished only by God are credited to Jesus. Jesus not only raised the dead (John 5:21, 11:38-44) and forgave sins (Acts 5:31, 13:38), He created and sustains the universe (John 1:2; Colossians 1:16-17). This becomes even clearer when one considers YHWH said He was alone during creation (Isaiah 44:24). Further, Christ possesses attributes that only deity can have: eternality (John 8:58), omnipresence (Matthew 18:20, 28:20), omniscience (Matthew 16:21), and omnipotence (John 11:38-44).

Now, it is one thing to claim to be God or to fool someone into believing it is true, and something else entirely to prove it to be so. Christ offered many miracles as proof of His claim to deity. Just a few of Jesus' miracles include turning water to wine (John 2:7), walking on water (Matthew 14:25), multiplying physical objects (John 6:11), healing the blind (John 9:7), the lame (Mark 2:3), and the sick (Matthew 9:35; Mark 1:40-42), and even raising people from the dead (John 11:43-44; Luke 7:11-15; Mark 5:35). Moreover, Christ Himself rose from the dead. Far from the so-called dying and rising gods of pagan mythology, nothing like the resurrection is seriously claimed by other religions, and no other claim has as much extra-scriptural confirmation.

There are at least twelve historical facts about Jesus that even non-Christian critical scholars will admit:

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. Jesus' tomb was discovered (or was claimed to be discovered) to be empty a few days later.
5. The disciples believed they experienced appearances of the risen Jesus.
6. After this, the disciples were transformed from doubters into bold believers.
7. This message was the center of preaching in the early Church.
8. This message was preached in Jerusalem.
9. As a result of this preaching, the Church was born and it grew.
10. Resurrection day, Sunday, replaced the Sabbath (Saturday) as the primary day of worship.
11. James, a skeptic, was converted when he also believed that he saw the resurrected Jesus.
12. Paul, an enemy of Christianity, was converted by an experience which he believed to be an appearance of the risen Jesus.

Even if someone were to object to this specific list, only a few are needed to prove the resurrection and establish the gospel: Jesus' death, burial, resurrection, and appearances (1 Corinthians 15:1-5). While there may be some theories to explain one or two of the above facts, only the resurrection explains and accounts for them all. Critics admit that the disciples claimed they saw the risen Jesus. Neither lies nor hallucinations can transform people the way the resurrection did. First, what would they have had to gain? Christianity was not popular and it certainly did not make them any money. Second, liars do not make good martyrs. There is no better explanation than the resurrection for the disciples’ willingness to die horrible deaths for their faith. Yes, many people die for lies that they think are true, but people do not die for what they know is untrue.

In conclusion, Christ claimed He was YHWH, that He was deity (not just “a god” but the one true God); His followers (Jews who would have been terrified of idolatry) believed Him and referred to Him as God. Christ proved His claims to deity through miracles, including the world-altering resurrection. No other hypothesis can explain these facts. Yes, the deity of Christ is biblical.

@sweetiepoo Well there's a lot of reasons to question the trinity since Jesus himself put God above himself: [quote]John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.[/quote]

when Jesus prayed to God he prayed for Jehovah's will to come through, and not his own:
[quote]Matthew 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”[/quote]

And notice how the Father, Jehovah is alone the "most high":
[quote]Psalm 83:18 May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.[/quote]

@sweetiepoo [quote]In conclusion, Christ claimed He was YHWH,[/quote]

Jesus never claimed that, and if you disagree then post a verse where he does.

@sweetiepoo Also I'd be glad if you wouldn't copy paste other people's work, it becomes too much to read.

Is Jesus God?
Some say Jesus Christ was just a man, or maybe a great teacher. But He was and is much more than that. The Bible says Jesus is unique in both His person and His purpose. He wasn’t just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God’s Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (I Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God (Colossians 2:9).

The claims

Jesus claimed to be God. It might be hard to understand how this could be true, but it’s important to remember that God is much bigger and more powerful than we can comprehend. We do know that Jesus said He existed before Abraham (John 8:58). He claimed that He and His Father are one (John 10:30), and that He is equal with the Father (John 5:17-18).

Not only did He claim to be God, but He also claimed to have the power of God. He said He has the authority to judge the nations (Matthew 25:31-46). He claims the authority to raise people from the dead (John 5:25-29) and to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7)—things only God can do (I Samuel 2:6; Isaiah 43:25).

Further, Jesus says He has the power to answer prayers (John 14:13-14), and that He will be with His followers always (Matthew 28:20). The New Testament equates Jesus to the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and in John 16:15, He says, “All that belongs to the Father is mine.”

But where’s the proof?

Claiming to be something, as Jesus claimed to be God, doesn’t make it true. Where’s the evidence that He is God?

Jesus’ identity isn’t based solely on what He says, but on what He does. And He has left a lot of evidence that He is God. That evidence includes fulfilled prophecy and recorded miracles in which Jesus reversed the laws of nature. He also lived a sinless life (Hebrews 4:15), something no one else has done.

The ultimate proof of His divinity, however, was His resurrection from the dead after His death on the cross. No one else has ever risen from the dead on his own.

Did Jesus ever say, ‘I am God’?

If someone said to you, “I am God,” would you believe him? Many people who believe in one God would think the person is blaspheming. Even if Jesus said the exact words, “I am God,” many people would not have believed Him or even heard what He had to say. Yet, He did give us reasons to believe such a claim without using these words.

In Luke 4:8, Jesus says, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'” He said and showed many times that He is the Lord. Jesus says, for example, that He is “the first and the last” (Revelation 1:17, 22:13), which God the Father says in Isaiah 44:6.

But maybe you’re looking for a place in the Bible where Jesus says, “I am God; worship me” in those exact words. If we suggest that Jesus could only claim to be God by saying that one sentence, we might also ask where He says, “I am a great teacher, but not God,” or, “I am just a prophet; don’t worship me.” The Bible doesn’t say that, either.

The good news is that Jesus told us He is God in many different ways! He has made it clear that He and God the Father are one (John 10:30), and says in John 14:6, “I am the way and the truth and the life.” Who else could claim these things except God?

Does that mean there are multiple gods?

Believing Jesus is God doesn’t mean there are multiple gods. Followers of Jesus believe in one God in three persons.

As Billy Graham once explained, “God has shown Himself to us in three ways—as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each has a separate function—and yet they are all united as one God.

“Let me illustrate it this way. Have you ever thought of some of the things we see around us that are both three—and yet also one? Centuries ago, St. Patrick used a clover leaf to teach the Irish about this—it has three leaves, and yet is still only one leaf. Or think of water. A quart of water can be ice, water, or steam—but it’s still the same quart of water.”

How can Jesus be God if He is God’s Son?

If Jesus is God’s Son, does that mean God had a wife?

God has never had a wife. Calling Jesus God’s Son is an expression of His role in relation to God the Father. Unlike us, Jesus was not conceived by two earthly parents; He was born of a virgin through a miraculous work of God. He was born holy, without sin.

Being born of a virgin might seem impossible—even Jesus’ mother, Mary, asked, “How will this be? (Luke 1:34)—yet God is all-powerful and made a way for the holy Jesus to be born a human. In Matthew 1:20, an angel tells Mary’s fiancé, Joseph, that what is conceived in Mary “is from the Holy Spirit.” Jesus was not born out of a sexual relationship between God and Mary, but instead out of a miracle by God through the Holy Spirit. Jesus was both fully God and fully human.

It is also significant that the most thorough Gospel account of the virgin birth was written by Luke, a medical doctor. If anyone knew the impossibility of a virgin birth, it was Luke—yet, after careful research, he concluded that it was a fact. The God who was powerful enough to create the universe was also powerful enough to bring Jesus into the world without a human father. His miraculous birth is just one more testament to His deity.

Why should we care who Jesus is?

There is one way to heaven, one way to be free from your sin and to have a relationship with God. That’s through Jesus Christ. Acts 4:1II says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” To have eternal life in heaven, you must put your trust in Jesus. Here’s why:

We all sin, meaning we all fall short of God’s perfect standard. The consequence of sin is death (Romans 6:23). That means eternal separation from God. But because Jesus lived a sinless life, His death on the cross provided the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Because He defeated death by rising again, we can have eternal life in the presence of God when we put our trust in Him.

Hundreds of people saw and believed in the risen Christ after His death and resurrection, and countless people in the past 2,000 years have discovered that only Jesus can meet the deepest longings and needs of the human heart. In Jesus Christ alone “are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Colossians 2:3).

Can we trust what the Bible says about Him?

The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is God, and there are many reasons we can trust the Bible. (Find “Is the Bible true?” under the Common Questions section for five of them.)

Not only do we have many reasons to believe that the text of the Bible is true, but many will find that reading the Bible allows God to speak to them—perhaps not audibly, but through His words.

While there are different translations of the Bible, the same core message is the same—that God loves us and freely offers us eternal life if we accept Jesus as our Savior. Different translations exist in an effort to make the Bible understandable to various audiences; however, the major doctrines—and the person of Jesus Christ—remain the same.

If you’re curious about Jesus or what the Bible says about Him, read the book of John in the Bible. It’s a great place to start.

@sweetiepoo dude

@MartinTheFirst I gave you the websites that thoroughly explains who Jesus is. Of course that wont be a short read, but I will give you direct scriptures. You have to remember not to take it out of context though. I just thought that deeper understanding would be helpful.

@sweetiepoo I have a pretty deep understanding already. If you dont want to discuss it then it's cool, but I won't read all of that.

@MartinTheFirst Sorry, Just got your message about the long reads, but they help to explain the text so that they wouldn't be take out of context.