What does the Bible say about the concept of purgatory? [Spirituality & Religion]
I’m very sensitive to those who believe that choices regarding salvation can be made after we die, however, this is where careful bible study comes in. We never want to “read in” what we’d [u]like[/u] scripture to say, but rather, carefully study what scripture accurately teaches. Of course, open, respectful discussion is welcome. If you think this post is inaccurate, please let me know, so we can discuss it.
First, it must be clearly noted that the Bible does not teach purgatory. Scripture is adamant about teaching us that one’s sins must be reconciled with God BEFORE we die.
In fact, nowhere in scripture does God say there are second chances. This is why we have Jesus as our only Mediator between God and man...to have our sins forgiven while on earth, before our soul departs this earth. If not, there would have been no need whatsoever for Jesus to die on the cross, to pay with His blood, our sin debt, so we could repent while on earth.
In scripture, believers are not called to offer prayers or works on behalf of the dead. The dead's eternity has already been decided by them, while on earth. That is why the Jesus said, “TODAY is the day of salvation, for you know not what tomorrow shall bring.” In other words, don’t wait until you die to make that decision. If you do, it will be too late. Further, He warns not to put that decision off, because you also don’t know when your time is up, and He doesn’t want you to miss Heaven. That is why we seek to grow in Christ and share Him with others, so they may know these things. God didn’t leave us to guess about life and death. The truth is there to be found in His Word, to be studied.
When a man dies, his soul is still alive, and he returns to God, where the Bible tells us he faces judgment for "what he has done in the body, whether good or evil" (Hebrews 9:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10). Do [u]not[/u] confuse this with trying to earn your way to heaven. Jesus said that won’t work, lest everyone would boast that they saved themselves, which is an impossibility. You are saved by grace alone. It is a gift...you don’t earn gifts...you receive them.
The fact is, there is a way to escape hell and the sin that brings judgment upon us. God is fair....SIN is not, and brings condemnation upon our soul...but God is also love, and in His love He took our sins upon Himself at the cross. Christ paid the judgment in full, so that we don't have to face hell. Paul writes, "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him." (Romans 5:8–9).
On an American troopship, the soldiers crowded around their chaplain, asking, "Do you believe in hell?" "I do not", replied the chaplain. "Well, then, will you please resign, for if there is no hell, we do not need you, and if there is a hell, we do not wish to be led astray."
If there is no hell, then there is no need for a cross or a Savior. But hell is very real, and as Christian author Os Guinness says, "For some, Hell is simply a truth realized too late." It is a sobering fact that those who choose to reject Jesus in this life, will have their request honored in the next by God, who will indeed acquiesce to their wishes, and send them to the choice they themselves have made.
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SW-User
That confirms my idea that many believers believe and do what they do because of fear of punishment in the afterlife. If there was no hell, they would not act righteously, because there would be nothing motivating them to do so.
Another misconception. Contrary to belief, the choice to follow Christ, is not done by believers out of fear, but voluntarily, out of great love and thankfulness to our Creator, for all He has done for us. There is no fear in perfect love, and that is what God’s love, person, and plan of salvation is...perfect! Without Him, none could ever experience heaven, nor see loved ones again. @SW-User
@SW-User What you mistakenly call Christians acting righteously, are those doing what Jesus commissioned His Disciples and all His followers to do, since He had to return to His Father in heaven.
SW-User
@LadyGrace Would you live your life the same way if you knew there was no hell? Would a reward in the afterlife and a better life on earth be enough?
That’s a weird question. We don’t follow Christ for reward. If there’s a heaven, there is a hell. And visa-versa. If people don’t care to believe that, that’s up to them. Again, you’re hinting at living in fear again, while my decision was not based on fear of Hell. @SW-User
Your comment of why believers “do what they DO because”.....would also be inaccurate, because that would then fall under “works” and scripture is very clear that one cannot get to heaven by good works. @SW-User
SW-User
@LadyGrace But one can condemn themselves with bad works? Works matter too, according to James.
My implication is that if there are no dire consequences for not following Jesus, let’s say you simply cease to exist, then choosing to follow Jesus does not carry the same weight. The possibility of hell is necessary for belief.
No. Sin is the problem here, not Christ. He came to [i]save[/i] the lost. Works always come [u]after[/u] one has received salvation, never before. However, they are NOT done to [u]keep[/u] their salvation. Only out of love for Christ. That’s why Jesus said not before, lest people would boast that they saved themselves by earning their way to heaven, voiding a need for Jesus, then, to die on the cross for their sins.
Since we know all shall keep their appointment with death, then does the idea of consequences, naturally concern man. No one wants to go to hell, yet if there were no consequences, one would not have needed a Savior, and Jesus would not have volunteered to die on our behalf, and pay for our sins.
In answer to your question....sorry....got off track.....no...works of the believer, [u]after[/u] He is saved, never condemn him. Scripture is clear on that. It’s more complicated than that if one doesn’t know their bible. Not meaning you, at all. Just in general.
There are two different judgements. One for unbelievers and one for believers. Since the believers sins have already been covered by the blood of Jesus, his judgement consists of work he has done for Christ, meaning his motives behind them, and things like if he helped people, or for the cause of Christ. They will be tried by fire, yet he, himself, shall be saved. If his works are no good, then he shall lose “rewards”....meaning crowns. There are different crowns for ones service to Christ, that believers shall lay at His feet, in honor and gratitude to Him. However, there is [u]no condemnation[/u] to those who love the Lord and live according to His Word.
Romans 4:7 - “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.“
Romans 4:7 - “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.“
What this verse [i]also[/i] tells us, is that for unbelievers, it is not works or God that condemns people. It is sin. Sin separates people from Christ and that is why He hates [b]sin[/b] so much...NOT the person, themself. Yet sin must be forgiven before anyone can be in heaven with God the Father, because if we were to enter heaven with our sins, it would no longer be heaven. And that’s where Jesus comes in and why we need Him to forgive us of our sins.
When people accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they are not trying to be, nor act righteously. They act differently because God has placed a new Spirit of regeneration in them. Namely, the Holy Spirit, which naturally transforms their lives. They no longer desire to sin or go against God’s Word. Before I was saved, I thought they were just putting on an act, too, but once I became a follower of Christ, committing my life to Him, I experienced this transformation myself, so was then able to understand what took place. He gives us a new heart, new mind, and a new life. A brand new start, our sins forgiven.
@SW-User
SW-User
@LadyGrace That's fine. I understand that. But my point is that the initial impetus for wanting to accept Jesus is contingent on there being a reward or punishment in the afterlife. There wouldn't be enough without those things. This is why preachers say "turn or burn"; this is why the emphasis on fire and brimstone. That initial impetus comes from the most basal human desires/fears.
I understand what you’re saying, and that would seem to make sense, however believers don’t do it for that reason. That just happens to be included in the salvation experience. If there were no reward or punishment, we would still love Jesus, simply because of who He is, but the fact is, the analysis is hardly fair, sensible, or accurate, because of one important fact that will never change. What Jesus did on the cross for all of us, can never be undermined. His sacrifice is ineffable. He not only said He loves us. He proved it. Scenarios and assumptions are useless when it comes to how horribly this man suffered so we might have eternal life. It was certainly a reality for Him. @SW-User
I don’t believe those ministers should use fear as motivation to come to Christ. Even Christ, Himself, did not use scare tactics. He taught the love of God and how their Father in heaven loves them so much, He provided them a way to have eternal life regardless of their sins. @SW-User
