If you don't believe in the God of the Bible, what would it take for you to believe? [Spirituality & Religion]

@pennynoodles Thanks for your honest response. That seems to be a pretty common response... Everyone asks for "evidence", but then whatever evidence is provided isn't what they want.

@ms20182878 there actually hasn't been any evidence provided whatsoever, we are all still waiting with happy abandon for the day some evidence does come to light.

Probably because the evidence has only be evident to believers.

@PikachuTrainer That's my point exactly. When evidence is provided, the skeptic quickly says that it isn't evidence. 🙂

@ms20182878 except you never actually provide evidence, theists either post a video of some online preacher and call it evidence or go off on something completely unrelated like how "complex" we all are.

I kinda hope that perhaps one day, I do find some evidence as I know there can be a lot of comfort to be found in religion. Perhaps one day something may happen that will make me see things differently. @ms20182878

@ms20182878 Being an atheist is an intellectual conceit. It is to make those with very average minds feel intellectual superior to others and most importantly interesting to themselves. It has no core belief, no point and no purpose except negative ones.

@pennynoodles It is clearly easier for believers to recognize the evidence, but it seems that non-believers have a bias against accepting historical and archeological evidence that demonstrates the truth of the Biblical text. It has become really clear to me that until God opens a person's eyes, they cannot see.

No personal insults please. So far this conversation has been interesting. @Abrienda

@ms20182878 right, you can only see the evidence when you blindly follow something.... You call us Biased but isn't that exactly what you want us to do to believe in God? Confirmation Bias is not evidence, nor has there been any historical or archeological evidence to prove any of the Biblical texts.

@pennynoodles Oh my...strike too close to home did it? A PERSONAL insult is when you attack someone PERSONALLY which I have not. I am describing a mindset and system of belief as I see it...and do not take it upon yourself to censor people. If you are offended, too bad.

@PikachuTrainer Those aren't exactly where I go to make the case. I would make the case based on: 1) The complexity of creation can be used as evidence for an intelligent designer. I know that many people do not like to accept that there is an intelligent designer, but they have difficulty providing a counter-argument other than "it just took a long time" for everything to evolve. 2) The prophecies written in Biblical text that have been fulfilled with a clear historical record can be used as evidence. But people reject that and say that it was just random chance that those events actually happened. The problem is that the probability that all of these prophecies were fulfilled is exceeding small. 3) Archeological excavations continue to support the Biblical descriptions of particular locations as new finds are uncovered. 4) The historical events of the Middle East have agreed through history with the Biblical predictions. 5) There is geological and fossil record evidence of a catastrophic worldwide flood. 6) The large number of Biblical texts that have been discovered, the level of textual agreement between those texts, and the proximity in time to the actual events. 7) and more...

The challenge is that many non-believers sweep all of the above off the table as being "no evidence". And it seems as if those who genuinely set out to disprove the existence of God and the validity of the Biblical text through a thorough study of the evidence, end up becoming believers.

@PikachuTrainer That's the impression I get, that we have to first believe the christian god is real before we can see the evidence of it. It's a case of putting the conclusion first. Everywhere else, the conclusion is based on the evidence.

@PikachuTrainer I didn't use the word "only" and I said that there "seems" to be a bias. It becomes difficult in these conversations to avoid having my words changed. I try to select my words very carefully to avoid what you just did in altering them.

@suzie1960 The Biblical text clearly states that we must come by faith... but I'm just trying to point out that there is plenty for us to investigate as we decide if we want to believe, or not. If we want to decide to not believe and not do any investigation, that is clearly our choice to make.

@ms20182878 [quote]The complexity of creation can be used as evidence for an intelligent designer[/quote]

Complexity cannot be used as any sort of argument. Creationists have not been able to present a single example of irreducible complexity. Simplicity compounding over time (in this case 35 billion years) yields apparent complexity as an emergent property

[quote]The prophecies written in Biblical text that have been fulfilled with a clear historical record can be used as evidence[/quote]

Which prophecies are those? Are [i]all[/i] such prophecies demonstrably fulfilled?

[quote]Archeological excavations continue to support the Biblical descriptions of particular locations as new finds are uncovered[/quote]

Given that you’re referring to a loose collection of middle-Eastern tribal histories, why would historical matching be in any way significant?

[quote]The historical events of the Middle East have agreed through history with the Biblical predictions[/quote]

Which predictions are those?

[quote]There is geological and fossil record evidence of a catastrophic worldwide flood[/quote]

There is no such evidence whatsoever.

[quote]The large number of Biblical texts that have been discovered, the level of textual agreement between those texts, and the proximity in time to the actual events[/quote]

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

@newjaninev2 Thanks for making my point...

@ms20182878 [quote]That's my point exactly. When evidence is provided...[/quote]

So, what evidence have you provided?

@newjaninev2
Just embrace the idiot Hawking and be done with it. We know he is your plush stuffed toy.

@newjaninev2 ❤️S her “Big Bang” but her poor boy kicked it on Pi day.

@newjaninev2 I provided areas of evidence. Instead of engaging in a dialog concerning those areas of evidence, you discounted them with statements like "Are all such prophecies demonstrably fulfilled?" and "There is no such evidence whatsoever." I didn't use the word "all". There are many prophecies about the life and death of Jesus, and many prophecies about the return of the Jews to their land, as a starting point. As for the flood, there many geologists who seem to believe that the only way you can explain the geologic features on the surface of the earth are through vast movements of water. You say there is no evidence whatsoever. They say that there is clear evidence. Maybe you should investigate and disprove their conclusions.

@ms20182878 [quote] If we want to decide to not believe and not do any investigation, that is clearly our choice to make.[/quote]
I did do my own investigation. When I was a christian I studied the bible and reached the conclusion that it was no more than a collection of myths and superstitions. That why I'm no longer a christian.

@ms20182878
Don’t take her seriously.
She doesn’t even use scientific terms correctly.

@ms20182878 [quote]1) The complexity of creation can be used as evidence for an intelligent designer. I know that many people do not like to accept that there is an intelligent designer, but they have difficulty providing a counter-argument other than "it just took a long time" for everything to evolve. [/quote]
Based on that argument, the "designer" must be even more complex than the design so must, itself, have had an even more intelligent designer, and so on [i]ad infinitum[/i]. Any explanation as to the origin of the ultimate designer or creator can just as easily be applied to the universe instead.

@ms20182878 [quote]discounted them with statements like "Are all such prophecies demonstrably fulfilled?" [/quote]
I prophesy that you will win the UK lottery. If you ever do that will of course prove my divinity. Until then my prophecy is "yet to be fulfilled".