In your opinion, is Scientology a cult? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Madhatter I guess I understand your point of view, but there's a difference between cults and religions.

@HopelessRomantic95 And what would that be?

@Madhatter I can read the Bible for free at any library. Reading just the introductory Scientology texts costs several thousand dollars. And that's just the start.

@OggggO Is there a collection plate at church? Fundraisers? Does the pope live in a palace? They all trade faith for profit, just in different ways.

@Madhatter My church doesn't threaten to cut me off from everyone I know if I don't put enough money in the collection plate. I'll grant you that the Vatican is ludicrously extravagant and the money could have been better spent helping people, but then, I'm not a Catholic.

@OggggO True, they don't. You do get passive-aggressively shamed, though. I see them as both wanting your money, but scientology is just more blatant about it. Which is why fewer people subscribe to that particular faith. But their church is young... Give them a few centuries to hone their craft. Every religion needs fine-tuning. No one wanted to convert to Christianity because they couldn't wrap their heads around worshipping the same god who does both good and bad things to you. That's why they created the devil so long after the religion had started.

First of all, Christianity is simply followers of Christ....not a religious group. We believe in Jesus, not man-made philosophy, such a religion. Religion did not die on the cross for our sins. The person of Jesus did.

Cults are subsets of religion.

A cult is an intense religious group that

1. has to report to, and obey the leadership.

2. The cult leadership usually tell their members where to live,

3. where to work,

4. who to marry,

5. and how many hours to devote to the cult.

6. The cult leadership usually require almost daily attendance at one of the cult's functions.

Lesser symptoms of a cult are:

7. the use of shaming to get compliance,

8. lack of sleep and nutrition,

9. requirements to give almost all their money to the cult out of each paycheck,

10. their use of contradicting themselves and requiring the members not to point out the contradictions,

11. their use of trauma to keep the members off balance,

12. and the practice of requiring members to give up all their friends (and family) who are not in the cult.

13. When a member tries to leave a cult, they are lectured for hours in a group, with all the group members involved in persuading and shaming the member into staying in the group.

14. If a member leaves a cult, that member is shunned, and no-one in the cult is allowed to associate with that ex-member. Since the member has already given up all of his/her friends and family outside the cult, the ex-member is left with no-one, and is often left with no place to live, having been kicked out of the communal housing of the cult.

Most people attracted to cults have grown up in alcoholic or drug addicted households, or a household in which there was a major obsession, like religion, or the pursuit of a performance career. These households usually require the suppression of some emotions (anxiety, anger, sadness) and ignore important psychological needs (safety, autonomy, trust, respect). Having grown up in this atmosphere, the promises of the cult's love and importance seem wonderful, and the manipulations feel familiar.



@Madhatter

@LadyGrace You need to brush up on your definitions. Christianity is most definitely a religion.

@LadyGrace But christianity is man-made philosophy. It's all based upon a book written by men for the purpose of teaching a particular lifestyle. You can't have one without the other. Do you follow Christ, but not the bible?

1 and 5. Are you not asked to attend church every Sunday to listen to and adhere to the words of a priest for a set period of time?

4. Does your church tell you that men can not or should not marry other men?

3. Would your church shame you if you were to work as a stripper?

6. Are you encouraged to pray every day?

2 is dependent on the size of the religion. They don't have to tell you where to live if nearly the entire world is their community with a church on almost every block.

You need to know that religion is man made philosophy. Thats why we have a ton of different religions. Those who are unbelievers would define Christianity as a religion, but born again believers recognize that we put our faith in the person of Jesus, not religion. Anyone can have religion. Religion never saved anyone. But Jesus did. Religion didn’t die on the cross for our sins....but Jesus did. That’s just like going to church doesn’t save you, no matter how many times you go. It’s by trusting in Jesus and because of His grace, through faith. God isn’t interested in denominations. He’s interested in those who choose to have their sins forgiven, so they can live with their Father in heaven, forever. Christianity is all about relationship, not religion.

@OggggO

@LadyGrace You put your faith in Jesus, but not religion? Those are the same thing. You're placing faith in the religion that Jesus ever actually existed or that his death was anything more than a normal man dying on the cross like any other criminal of the day. The religion tells you that Jesus was a deity and not a street magician or completely fictional character.

No, they’re not, sorry. Christianity is all about relationship, not religion.
@Madhatter

@Madhatter the methods used to gain and retain membership

@LadyGrace not to be disrespectful, sounds like you are saying a religion is the one I happen to believe in!

Magical entities can't affect the natural world but God can.
@Madhatter

@LadyGrace Relationship to a character that you believe exists because of adherence to the religion. Like scientology is about relationship to the prophet Hubbard who brought the truth to light.

From the perspective of an atheist, they are exactly the same thing. Faith in writing by men regarding events that may or may not have happened, involving characters that may or may not have existed, without offering evidence, for the purpose of profit and power. Of course you will defend your religion, and you have every right to do so, but scientologists can use the exact same argument.

@LadyGrace You're saying that God is not a magical entity? He's described as an entity that does magic. Like you're playing with me at this point, right?

@FunReader55 People are free to believe in what they wish. I’m sharing what I believe in. To each their own. I’m saying I believe what God says in His Word. I don’t go by what mere man says. I go by what Jesus says.

@LadyGrace But... God doesn't say anything. Or Jesus. Only men. "His Word" is second-hand information you heard from a man, not from God. In a book written by men. King James has his name on it. Telling you that he had it re-written. It's on the cover.

Well, man’s “description” would say that. Whatever you wish to believe. To each their own.
@Madhatter

@LadyGrace I fully agree with you that people should be free to choose as they wish!! Again, no dissrespect, but the only way you know what Jesus said is through translations of mere man correct?

Believe as you wish. @Madhatter

@LadyGrace That's not a belief thing. Like, atheism aside, it really does say on the cover that it is the King James version. No faith required there. Assuming you're using the most commonly used version of the bible in the world. You have to at least be able to concede that, right?

@Madhatter God can no more be proven by science than disproven. There is no place in the Bible that says solve this equation and see God. It’s based on faith and hope. The universe is intelligently designed and follows an intensely complicated set of rules. The human body is pure genius. Yet you cannot point out the soul on an anatomy chart. Science and spirituality live simbiotically. Science rules based. God faith based.

@FunReader55 Of course. That's what makes it a religion. It is entirely based on faith. However, faith and fact don't have to be mutually exclusive. I can understand believing in the bible. That is faith. I cannot understand believing that the bible is written by God himself, when it can be factually proven that the bible was written by man. You can say God wrote it through man, but to say that man did not write it is just factually false.

Anyone who says there is no god is no different than a religious person. They base that off of faith, because they haven't proven it. They may be able to say that the evidence strongly suggests there is no god, but to say with complete certainty that there isn't is the same faith in absolutes that an atheist would claim to be against. I don't know that there isn't a god. I don't believe there is, but that's a separate issue. Some aspects of it have nothing to do with faith. Some things, like the bible being rewritten at the behest of King James so that it "flowed more beautifully" is a fact.