Is indoctrinating children into a religion against their will borderline child abuse? [Spirituality & Religion]

@LadyGrace have you ever thought that God is a man-made entity? Morality is natural. Animals have it and they're not religious. Humans don't need religion to be moral either. In fact, being religious is unmoral if you let the deity decide your morality.

@Shaun That is some’s opinion. Not mine, since He saved my life. To each their own on the subject of God being a man-made entity. Animals have no idea of what is moral. They live by instinct. No...humans [i]dont[/i] need religion to be moral. Some are just moral, but that doesn’t address where they’ll spend eternity, and Jesus tells us how to make sure we spend eternity in heaven. Even some “religions” don’t teach that, which is crucial. Religion doesn’t save anyone. All that is, is man-made philosophy. Christian means follower of Christ. That’s why we are to follow Him, the person of Jesus Christ, and not some religion. He said HE is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one shall see the Father, except by trusting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Religion did not die on the cross to save us from our sins. Jesus did. If people don’t want to believe that, that is up to them. But I do. Not because I have to, but because I want to out of love for him and what he has done for me in my life and for thousands of others. That was a decision I made. Not someone who forced me to make it, or wanted me to make it. In fact, that choice is up to everyone of us. God cannot and will not force his will on us. That is why he gave us free choice. I cannot see what possible threat the Lord could be, when He loves us so much, He made sure He provided a way for us to [b]escape[/b] hell. It our choice. Not His. If we do not make that choice, that is our responsibility. God does not force us to go to hell or heaven. If we miss it, that is either because we do not understand what His plan was and is, or....we just don’t want to know Him. If His divine plan of salvation were NOT in place, all of us would go to hell. How would we like that? If we miss heaven, the offer is there, and it will not be God‘s fault if we ignore it or reject it. It is only when people do not understand God‘s plan, that they reject it.

Animals do have morality. Humans also have instinct. Humans are animals, albeit very clever. Also, to think that God would sacrifice himself on a cross (which he can't really if he's immortal and can just come back so that's not even sacrifice) to save humans of their 'sins' which God created is absolute lunacy. If a priest pedophile can go to heaven but a good moral athiest must go to hell, that's is moronic and to believe so just tells me christians are brainwashed beyond measure, because you believing that isn't your own morality, it's God's, making him immoral and you unmoral for being unable to think for yourself.

@Shaun God never created sin. God is [u]sinless....perfect.[/u] So how could He create sin? And why? To trip people up? That is absurd. All the answers are in God’s Word. Then you’ll understand what happened and why. And animals do not think the way humans do. They have no idea what morality is. They were not created by God with a sense of guilt or conscience. Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said one thing about a priest pedophile.

Sin is disobedience to God. Any sin. God does not categorize sin. Man does. Sin is sin, and it separates us from God. That is WHY God hates sin so much. He does not hate US. He loves us, but hates sin. In the spiritual world, sin is atoned for, by a blood sacrifice. Without that sacrifice, sin cannot be forgiven. That is the payment for sin.... blood. Since we are full of sin as humans, we could not possibly pay for our own sins. It takes a pure sacrifice, which is Jesus. So instead of us dying in our sins with no way out and on our way to hell, Jesus died on the cross as a pure sacrifice [i]in our place[/i] and in payment for our sins. Had he not died in our place, and payment for our sins, we all would have ended up going to hell. I am extremely thankful for His great sacrifice. However, Jesus said we are not automatically forgiven. We must come to him and repent of our sins, and ask him to forgive them, and He promises to do that, and we are then brought back into fellowship with God the Father in heaven, and so shall live in heaven with Him for eternity. It is a life of dedication and service, in gratitude for His love and great sacrifice for us. Not on a [i]have to[/i] basis, but because we [i]want to[/i], out of love for Him.

God is sinless yet commands slavery and sacrifice? Also he loves you but he's going to send you to a fiery pit for eternity if you ever doubt him? Well let's have a look at the definition of sin:

sin
sɪn/Submit
noun
1.
an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.

Therefore God can commit sin, given what he does is immoral. Slavery and human sacrifice are both immoral. Do you agree they are immoral? Yes or no?

@Shaun Well, that is the definition of people who do not understand God, do not want to know Him, and want to find fault. Why? I don’t know. Are His acts immoral? Never. He cannot err. He is incapable of error.

Here Jesus died on the cross, just so you and everyone else could go to heaven. We should be grateful. How would we like the alternative?? Instead we find fault, and criticize what we don’t understand. God makes perfect decisions. He [i]cannot[/i] err. Just because we don’t understand each and everything He does, does not mean that his decisions are wrong. They cannot be wrong. He is perfect. Who are we, in our arrogance, to question God? Are we smarter and wiser than God? Hardly. Could we save ourselves? No.

Wow. How deluded must you be to think that slavery and sacrifice is moral and OK because 'God' said so. You have no morality of your own; your religion has stripped you of all your morality and humanity and now you can't see reason, let alone think for yourself. I pity you. It is arrogant not to question God. Are we wiser? Yes; we're obviously capable of better morals which makes us higher than God. Could we save ourselves? Fucking yes. Save ourselves from what by the way?

How immature you are to be so disrespectful, simply because you disagree. I never called you names. So if you can save yourself, do so. I never said slavery and sacrifice were moral. But I trust God, who is far smarter than any of us shall ever be. If you don’t, so be it, but show respect to those in this forum. We are here for [i]discussion....not blood. Lighten up. [/i]@Shaun

I never called you names. I simply stated you are deluded and I can back that up with evidence. You put your faith and trust in a man-made supernatural entity for which there is no evidence of, say its OK to teach kids such fallacy, and them think it's wrong to judge the morals of such fallacy.

@Shaun We’re entitled to our own opinion. Leave it at that. We simply disagree. We’re not here to judge.

@LadyGrace I agree entirely with what you say. However, I doubt we'll get much support here! The question Shaun asked, if I understand correctly, is more general: religion (not just Christianity) versus no religion. I believe his whole argument is flawed because he is attributing lack of strong feeling to atheists, making indifference a virtue. Really? That's very naïve.

@Malcolm Thanks. True. I was trying to answer his question, but it lead to other avenues other than his initial question. It’s interesting to discuss, but not when it goes beyond that.