Do you have any controversial beliefs?

@BlueVeins [quote]Incest isn't inherently immoral. [/quote]

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Incest became outdated after the advent of condom. Incest was outlawed for the purpose of progeny. Never for sex.

@in10RjFox Honestly I tend to think just a condom /w incest is too risky, but I 1,000% agree with your overall message.

@BlueVeins I don't get you ? What is too risky and what's the outcome ?

The facilities available for out-breeding is available for inbreeding as well. And when it can happen for out-breeding, why can't it happen for inbreeding ?

@in10RjFox Condoms have a 2% failure rate even when used perfectly. If that happens, the woman may get pregnant, which is a shitty situation because at that point, society would either have to force her to have an abortion (which is immoral) or accept her giving birth to a sick child (which is also immoral). I think you could get the failure rate down low enough if either partner wore a condom, the woman was on birth control, [u]and[/u] she was ready to get an abortion if need be. Ideal case would be one or both partners being sterilized in advance, but the downsides of that can be fairly serious, especially for younger people.

@BlueVeins incest is not as serious as it was projected. All the defects of inbreeding are in out-breeding as well. If it's immoral to give birth to a sick child, then there must be no sick child born out of out-breeding, which is not a case.

If it's so moral, then normal couples giving birth to a sick child too must be ostracized and separated ..

I know of a girl who has had nine abortions between 18-21 years of her age ..

When any tom dick or Harry on the street can screw my sister, why can't I ?

@in10RjFox Birth defects aren't even detected prenatally in 30% of cases, so the idea of automatically blaming the parents fails on that alone. You could say that parents should be ostracized for not aborting [i]having detected[/i] that birth defect, sure, but that would create a social imperative for a woman to abort, which generally isn't cool. Abortion is a deeply personal decision and some people just aren't ready for it.

And yeah, birth defects occur in outbreeding as well, but they occur at dramatically higher rates in cases of inbreeding. We're talking about 7% vs 42% in one Czech study (counting early deaths as birth defects in both cases). It's the same argument as to why it's not OK to drink alcohol while pregnant. It's just fucking over your offspring for no good reason.

@BlueVeins We can think of a solution or workaround, only if we understand and analyse the problem. For instance there is no need to abort, but couple given a choice to give away the baby by adoption to an orphanage. When a single woman has the right to dump a child near a garbage, so why not give them the right to do so ?

When so many childless couple have so many options, why not the sane be available to inbreeding couples ?

So, it's all about stigma.

@in10RjFox That wouldn't solve the problem. If your kid is born with a birth defect, giving them to an orphanage won't change the fact that their life is really fucked up and they're probably gonna die young. In fact, that may make it even worse. I assume the garbage dump thing is a figure of speech unless you're talking about actual infanticide?

@BlueVeins it's not infanticide. It's really abandonment of new born child near a garbage dump. Happens a lot in Singapore.


[quote]If your kid is born with a birth defect, giving them to an orphanage won't change the fact that their life is really fucked up and they're probably gonna die young. [/quote]

When their life is already fucked up at birth, what further has to happen ?

Who or what are you worried about ? Your worry seems to go everywhere. You need to first establish the problem firmly and then find a solution.

@in10RjFox Of course it's infanticide to abandon a baby in an environment where they're likely not to be found and cared for. Are you kidding me? Or at the [i]very least[/i], it's extremely reckless treatment of a baby's life. I feel like I've been pretty clear in establishing the problem, which is that inbred children are more vulnerable to birth defects. And my solution has always been to use reliable, redundant birth control to prevent pregnancy (condom + birth control pills OR one/both partners sterilized).

@BlueVeins infanticide is killing a baby .. abandonment is not .. what's wrong with you ? If the child dies, then parent maybe charged with culpable infanticide, provided if traced. Many babies are abandoned near a church or orphanage or garbage bin, since they would be attended to soon.

[quote] I feel like I've been pretty clear in establishing the problem, [/quote]

That's where the problem is. We are talking about child born with defects, irrespective of whether it's in or out bred, and whether parents are married officially or not.

@in10RjFox If you're deliberately taking action that may lead to the death of a baby outside of absolute necessity, then yeah you're killing the baby. Babies are completely reliant on their parents for survival. At the very least, it's extremely negligent.

[quote]That's where the problem is. We are talking about child born with defects, irrespective of whether it's in or out bred, and whether parents are married officially or not.[/quote]

I didn't say jack shit about marriage and IDK how that's relevant. What I'm saying is that inbreeding creates a [i]higher risk[/i] of birth defects, much like drinking while pregnant.

@BlueVeins that we established long ago... we moved on to child born with defects .. Anyway, I think we are on the same page. Let's Close it here.