Housing, food, health care and education are basic human rights and thus should be free.

@joe438 Isn’t that the way things are already? More and more people rent their place to live. And people buy what the supermarket decides to sell. So why not make that effectively free?

@Luke73 You choose where to live based on your needs and the ability to pay for it. People buy food they like, keeping in mind what they have money for. If all of this was effectively free, are you saying that society should offer you a seaside mansion on a secluded coast with an infinitely stocked cupboard filled with caviar?

If I choose to rent one place over another, perhaps I'm picking the smaller place because I don't need the room. Or I pick the larger place which costs more because I like to spread out a little. I don't want someone deciding that for me.

@joe438 So are you saying that if someone can’t afford rent, they don’t deserve a place to live?

An that’s wrong often enough, people can’t really choose where they live, in cities the rents are very high, so that fewer people can afford it. In those places high rents are really a problem. So that there is no choice, you have to take the first best thing.

@Luke73 I am saying that it's not your place to force me to pay for your place to live. If I'm struggling to pay my rent, why is it okay for you to take money from me to pay for yours? We should all have a safe place to sleep - I'm not arguing that - the issue is where does that come from? You can say the government can provide that, but that's done by taking taxes from everyone else. In cities where rents are very high, maybe not everyone can live there. Try looking in some other city where the rents are lower.

@joe438 So you’re saying it’s ok for people to be forced to move somewhere else because they can’t afford it anymore, spend more money doing that, so just that sole people can buy their fifth car?
I think as a society we should support each other. I think it is important to help others who struggle.

@Luke73 yes it all sounds nice in theory that rich people should give to the poor and many do, but not enough to solve the housing problem people are facing. but think about it if you worked hard to earn or got lucky and was born into money would you give it all away to those less fortunate so that you were on equal ground with them? would you give away your second car so someone else could have one (in a sea of millions or billions of carless people?) some peopel think socialism is the answer, which ive been told is basically stealing the money from the rich people and redistributing it to the poor, but then what after? we're left with communism and will be at the mercy of government. and its not like you still owuldnt have to work. you just wouldnt be able to amass any money for yourself. wed be like slaves.

@Luke73 Lots of us want to help each other out. I spend my Sundays cooking and serving food at the church for homeless in our area around Boston. I donate money to help pay for it. I fully agree that we should want to support each other but when human nature kicks in and people start taking advantage of you, then you kind of don't want to help any more.

But yes, if you want a free place to live and you can't find a nice one in a nice city, then you may have to move.

@Penny That is besides my point. I just don't think it is fair that people have unimaginable wealth while others are living on the street and starving. I don't think it is fair that just because you have wealth, you can generate money through it. I'm ok with that one person owns more than another as long as it's in a healthy relation. Sure there will be always something that is not fair and always be some issues but shouldn't we still try to and make the world a better place?

And pure capitalism isn't the answer either, like especially in the most recent years, the rich become richer and the poor become poorer, what is the end goal then? That there are two "classes" of people? The rich and the poor? That sounds like slavery to me.

@joe438 I don't critize you personally, I don't know you, I've never said that you are a bad person or the problem. And it sounds like you do very honorable work.

I agree fully with your point, people shouldn't take advantage of you, so why is it ok to do so for money? For example why should a person pay for their glasses? It's not their fault they need it. If glasses can be sold at any price, as high as the corporation wants it, isn't that taking advantage of people and their basic needs?

@Luke73 well, i think government businesses is a good idea. why cant the government have competitive businesses to try and make some money to help support people who need it. but for some reason its supposedly not a thing. but youre right, why is the ceo of a company riding around all high and mighty while the people who do the hard work make pennies in comparison and get treated like shit. its not a fair system. but its a system that allows for people to better their position through education or work or like playing the lottery lol. im sure it sucks to be born poor but at least with capitalism you dont have to stay poor. but that takes smarts and commitment and having goals to pursue and conquer. not everyone is so smart or motivated or competent or lucky. so whats left but to accept your place in life and do what you need to do to survive.

eta- i suppose you could try and work towards getting the governments help but saying just because soemone else has an excess of somehting doesnt mean youre entitled to it.

@Penny It seems that we both agree at least that there is a problem. But I don't think you can achieve that all only through hard work. For example if you're born with not enough money to move to a different city and pay for university to get a better job, then it doesn't work. I don't mean to be entitled to what others have but I do think that everyone should have equal chances. And that if you are in a more fortunate situation you should support others who are less fortunate to make sure everyone has the same starting point.

If you say it's all about hard work, then shouldn't the owner of a big company, that he inherited, who doesn't basically have to work anymore, support someone who works two jobs just so that they can afford rent?

@Luke73 If glasses didn't cost anything to own, who would make them? Where would the materials come from? Glass and plastic cost money. In a perfect world, people who make necessities would make them as inexpensively as possible and sell them for the lowest possible price. The same could happen with food and clothes. But they still cost *something* and someone has to pay for that.

@joe438 We as a society should pay for it. Wouldn't you say everyone deserves equal chances?

@Luke73 you keep on using the word "should" thats your negative sense of entitlement. we create what we experience through our thoughts. if you feel lack you will attract more lack. if you feel grateful for what you have you will attract more abundance. as far as money inequality thats what programs liek pell grants and stuff are for. there's scholarships and stuff. a lot of opportnity lies in luck. some people get it and some people just dont . theres food banks, housing programs.. etc. there are resources for people in place if you look. i mean sure its not as good as getting handed loads of money to do with as you please, but be honest with yourself. if you had it would you give it all away? security is a spiritual or emotional issue. youre not gonna convince a stranger to give you money by telling them you deserve it because you dont have it and they do. i mean, you could get lucky and theyd do it but its not likely lol.

@Penny It's not about mindset or manifestation. And I think it's great that there exist organizations that support the less fortunate but that just proves that there is a problem. I don't think there shouldn't be a need for those to exist. It shows that the system is broken, so not change the system instead of fighting its symptoms. There are people rich enough to end or at least greatly reduce those problems. Why shouldn't they have to help? And on another note, the people with that great wealth almost exclusively acquired it by some very unethical ways, so it's only natural that they wouldn't want to change a system they benifit from so greatly, why should they? But they should still be held accountable and do their own part.
And yes, I don't have a problem with paying taxes to support less fortunate people, to ensure that health care stays affordable and to make education more accessible because I trust that when I'm in need other people will support me too. Isn't that the best form of security?

@Luke73 Quite a bit of tax money goes to social support. I'm not suggesting it's perfect and that everyone who receives support gets everything they need, but we also see a lot of it being stolen, and there's an ongoing conversation about what should be provided - the whole conversation about junk food on food stamps, for example.

Health care is always free at hospitals. They have to help people who come in and can't pay. Of course the rest of us and the insurance companies pick up those charges. Everything costs something in terms of materials and human effort/time.

@joe438 Now it sounds like you want to decide what people should get? Wasn't that your point why you were against it?
There will always be some bad people trying to take advantage of things but wouldn't an easier system help with that?

I've heard countless stories of people having to pay an entire fortune to pay some medical bills. Even that people don't call the ambulance because they are afraid they can't afford it.

@Luke73 it has a lot to do with mindset. say you think youll never get a decent job and it becomes a self fulfiflling prophecy. you have ot be optimistic. you may never geta lucky break but then you could some day. they say luck is being prepared for opportunity when it comes. you can try and convince a billionaire to give away a ton of money to help you, but who says it would even ever reach you personally withhow many people there are in the world. if you really want to make a difference then perhaps try and get into politics and work with the laws and stuff. how money gets spent from taxes lol. people can make a differnece. i just wouldnt know how personally. im not very ambitious. i just take whati get and and try and feel happy with what ive got. i do have a lot to be happy for though. i am willing ot work to get what i need to be happy though.

@Penny It's nothing against you personally, it sounds like you've done much to where you are now. But for example with education, rich people have a better academic education than poor people in average, are you saying that all those people have the wrong mindset then?

@Luke73 not sure what you mean

@Penny That there are statistics enough that prove that the situation you are born are the most influential factors of your future. For example that people who are born in a more wealthy situation, usually have a better academic education.

@Luke73 yeah but how many rich kids end up squandering their money on drugs and fancy cars. thats what i mean about mindset. optimism vs pessimism. good attitude vs bad attitude. being born into wealth means more opportunity but if your mindset is bad it wont matter and that goes for both rich and poor. it is harder say if you cant get a car to drive to school for example. but if theres a will theres a way generally. at one point i rode a bike to go to college 50 minutes each way mostly uphill to get there too. but i finished semesters doing it. i am fortunate ot be fairly smart though. college can be hard. for those without booksmarts there are other options. like trade schools and stuff. driving jobs, etc... maybe wont get rich working for like amazon or ups or teh post office or place slike that but could be a step in the right direction if applied wisely

@Penny There are exceptions to the rule of course, there are rich people getting poor and poor people getting rich, but those are really the exceptions. Unfortunately it gets more and more difficult.
I do agree though that if you put in much effort, the effort should be rewarded but we're long past that point that just the effort counts. For example two people make two internships and do exactly the same thing, one at a big tech company and one at a smaller one, who do you think is more likely to be hired though? They've both done the same work and put in the same effort.

@Luke73 well, thats where luck comes in i guess. some peopel get lucky and some dont. what can we do but pray or try and get into politics lol?

@Penny True lol. But I don't think luck should play a part in it. It sounds quite distopian if you have to rely on luck to be able to live a good live.