[c=#800000][i][Edit: Pinned for clarity on the incident and warning.][/i][/c]
[quote][c=#665D00]Warning Reason: [b]Bullying or encouraging self-harm.[/b][/c][/quote]
[quote]@Eclipsed: [b]Are you ready to die today?[/b] Don't worry it's not as bad as they say. Deep breaths.. you can do this.. I believe in you 🖤[/quote]
There are numerous individuals on this site, who may actively be in a mentally troubled state, or even contemplating suicide.
Very often, numerous users do post about their suicidal thoughts, while others users may not publicly share such intentions.
@Eclipsed, your account received a Mild Warning, due to a post of yours that could be interpreted as Encouraging Self-harm.
[sep]
Most Warnings given by SW Staff, are not without good reason. (As well, most automated actions prove to fall on the correct side, after review.)
The reason for many staff decisions on SW, won't always be immediately apparent to most users.
@SinlessOnslaught Hmm... I'm not sure that I agree with you here.
I spend a lot of my time here struggling mentally - and, reading this, I don't feel that his intent was to encourage bullying or self harm... but rather to get the original poster to reflect and take stock of their situation.
Especially given that he was positive and encouraging the poster to push through their day after the first sentence. I mean... we've had users on the site whose only comment was to tell another member to end their life.
I'd probably have had him just edit out that first line if anything.
@SinlessOnslaught He said "You can do this, I believe in your ability to get through today" - admittedly, poorly... but that's the context that he was aiming for.
Some of my friends have said "I believe in you" when I've been struggling - but I know that they wouldn't want or encourage me to hurt myself in any way, just like he didn't in his post.
Thanks for the feedback & opinions. It will be noted.
[i]The original post:[/i]
[quote][i]Group:[/i] [b]I Keep Too Many Things to Myself[/b]
[i]Post Type:[/i] [b]Exciting[/b]
[i]Title:[/i] [b]Are you ready to die today?[/b]
[i]Post:[/i] Don't worry it's not as bad as they say. Deep breaths.. you can do this.. I believe in you 🖤[/quote]
The choice of [b]Group[/b], choice of [b]Post Type[/b], and naturally, choice of words... doesn't seem to easily come across as being a Positive and Uplifting post.
The top post Reaction was: 😞
[sep]
Most respondents to the (Deleted) post, did not seem to interpret it as being Encouraging or Positive.
I guess many things can be interpreted in different ways. Though it seems an unusual wording to something that could be positively intended.
I didn't notice a shift to the positive side, from the original Subject (Title):
[quote][b]Are you ready to die today?[/b] Don't worry it's not as bad as they say.[/quote]
[quote][b]Are you ready to die today?[/b] Deep breaths.. you can do this..[/quote]
[quote][b]Are you ready to die today?[/b] I believe in you 🖤[/quote]
@Andrew My take is it was meant as a way to antagonize or encourage someone who was feeling suicidal. Exactly how it was reported out here. Most of us know exactly what we're writing and clarify or edit posts if there's any misinterpretation.
@Andrew Having seen the actual post for myself now, I am more understanding and inclined to agree with the actions taken - especially when I recall seeing this post myself before now.
From the initial comments, it appeared that there might have been more room for interpretation than there apparently is.
@Eclipsed you were wrong to have posted this, and you should be grateful that you only got a "mild" warning for it... especially given the way that you worded it in such a way that would evoke mixed feelings in anyone who is struggling.
I'm glad that admin took the post down and are so proactive and mindful of those of us who struggle with suicidal thoughts and tendencies.
@Andrew that was me talking to myself.. the you can do it.. that was me letting my inner turmoil to the surface.. it was meant to be my way of pushing through it to live in spite of the pain. As for the group and mood I hate the mood thing and I actively do random selections.. no thought went into that one. The group is one I frequently post too.. so that's common no matter what I write. Anyone who knows me.. know I am endlessly jokey and have a dark sense of humor. I have no shortage of friends here.. they know I do not encourage the vulnerable to hurt themselves.
In retrospect I am not saying I can't see how it could have been misinterpreted.. taken down.. yeah maybe.. I think what the prevailing feeling for me isn't anything to do with losing a post.. or getting a warning.. is the feeling that we have reached a point in human history/civilization where interpretation by a few now means fact.. actions must be taken to silence the offense.. a world run by people like @HannahSky who everyone knows, along with a few others, are serial flaggers and they are literally the moral police.. and they.. no matter how few they are, wield a tremendous amount of power. They are on YouTube and Facebook and they are why so many of us are here.. to escape these types of people who can't interpret both sides of any story. They are always the authority and companies bend over backwards to appease them. It's an alarming development. The muzzle is now on.. the lawyers and the most close minded and unimaginative now rule completely.
That said, I am not denying it could be seen by some, with a very particular mind set, as in bad taste or not funny or callous or whatever. But the prevailing moral for me is more and more people will self sensor if they feel they will be punished for speaking their mind.. getting dark thoughts out in a hope others will relate and share their own take, perhaps even facilitate a modicum of healing.
The people who judged me have no idea the problems I have.. the pain I have.. the diagnosis.. the medication.. the life traumas.. illnesses etc.. and I know many who have it much worse than I do.. I'm not special.. not by a long shot. But this site is supposed to be discussions and exploration.. humor.. freedom to express themselves. But because of the flaggers.. someone who has supported this site since the beginning and ep many many years before.. by the toon of a thousand or two dollars.. now feels like he can't speak his mine because the @HannahSkys of the world will be the arbiters of how his words are to be interpreted, and we all know those standards ever change. We've all seen the creep in every aspect of life and Now it is solidly here as well. Established. In charge. Delete the post.. it was a goofy one anyway.. warn me.. I'm sure I've done worse in the past and just never got flagged as much for it. Ban me.. thats nothing.. for I am nothing.. I've never mattered and this has never been about me but about principles and values of free expression that are no longer in charge, and I got to see the dawn of it here, at least in the context of my own life.
Maybe you can stay ahead of it.. maybe the new yahoo users and the MSN or Google or whatever other sites close their forums, and the new paying and advertising marks, will out weight the old guard supporters like me, and it will be an easier and more lucrative job to follow the hannas of the world over the cliff one day.. if so.. then this is exactly on point and a strategic sacrifice.. placate and expand.. be forever safe and never sorry.. I work for a large corporation I know how the game is played.
It's just sad a joke and a bad mood and my internal dialogs and dark sense of humor and the hannas of the world got us here to this moment in time. Your post was pretty rational to me and I appreciate the thought that went into it. Of course I disagree with the prospective taken, still it is a legitimate perspective.. and like all perspectives in life.. many of them turn out are wrong, but only much later. But it's an imperfect world, and so only a fool would expect a perfect website to exist within it. It is just sad to me just sad for the above stated reasons.. ad nauseam.
@Eclipsed [quote]serial flaggers[/quote] sorry I'm not. Nor am I on other platforms reporting people. I do think that if you were getting flack for the post, including the warning, you could talk to admin about it in a pm and say what you said about why you wrote it and made edits if needed. Nobody is out to get you.. Except maybe yourself for this whole escapade with this warning and post. I stand by what I said. And, I don't recall seeing the post before today fyi. I rarely see you post. Work this out with admin.
@SW-User Hear hear... that pedos group isn't doing as well as it wants to look like it's doing, either.
It could have done with at least someone reaching out to the member who was wrongly reported and helping him through the aftermath of what happened. It still makes me sad to know that I was the only one to at least try to reach out to him and find out how he was doing.
They think that simply adding a few extra rules and deleting his posts makes everything alright again. No, it didn't undo what happened... it didn't help that innocent guy in the aftermath and it certainly doesn't brush everything under the rug - that's why I took a huge leap back from that group after that.
A lot of what it took was just someone to listen to him and support him as he worked through his thoughts and feelings about what happened - it was just lucky that this man is as strong as he is because, had it happened to someone else, then the outcome could have been a lot different to what actually happened.
SW-User
@Andrew I interpreted the question as a Rhetoric qn about whether someone is willing to die today and the 'dont worry you can do it ......' as some kind of self assurance that he can do it, he can make it another day.
Weird how many ways something can be perceived. Also most people do not use the moods appropriately.
@Eclipsed Mate I can see it from your side when you look at it how you described. And I hate to dismiss your argument that you just made, but in this case @Andrew is right. There are people here hanging on by their fingertips, and you just can't risk them reading your post like it was, and that being the encouragement or the approval they wanted, and they took their own lives. I talk to a hell of a lot of people in Pms, when they say they want to end their lives, because I think you can't take the chance someone isn't serious. I hope all this doesn't add pressure to you if you are struggling as well, talk to any of us if it is. But this was the right call
I read it as you can do this, you can get through the day. Clearly a post that can be interpreted in different ways. I can see the other side, but the profile warning seems a bit over the top, given the fact that there seems to be a gray area here.
[c=#666666]@Eclipsed I understand how you meant it. I also understand why the admin saw it the way he did, as I think that is honestly a logical conclusion. Now that you've explained yourself, they should remove the warning — unless they don't trust your word, which I think is a mistake. After reading your long reply, it is completely clear to me that you did not mean to encourage anyone to hurt themselves, but that you were the one who was hurting.
If it's any consolation, I believe the warning will go away with time. Could you clear that up for us @Andrew?
Don't take it too hard. Don't associate this with your whole world-view please. In this case, the admins were merely protecting other vulnerable users. The upside is that they'll protect you too, if you ever need it. They mean well. I will tell you a little story in the PM's about how I once did something very wrong, yet they still let me stay here with a different account. Maybe they just want as many users as possible, but I actually believe they are perfectly fair in their ways of simply following the set of rules they've layed out for the website, and do not discriminate.[/c]
@Sheer it was the perfect nexus post. Hit that fuzzy line. I don't blame the admins.. I blame the group of moral police that flag everything. The admins know exactly who these people are.. they know exactly how disproportionate their flagging behavior is in comparison to most people. I have a problem with the lack of policing of the flaggers that run wild over all websites. I don't know why the priorities to keep these people in check isn't a bigger one.
I also know if some unstable person read my post wrong and was in crisis and hurt themselves it would make the news and the news would draw horrible unbalanced attention to the story and the moral outrage croud would shut this place down then we all lose.
So admins.. I get it.. I totally understand how you have to act for the benefit of the entire site. In a fucked up way I am glad, if maybe by chance this removal helped stop someone from sliding deeper into a self harm state.
Ever day I want to hurt myself and escape this terrible unending horror show in my mind. But how do I now post it if now I think I'm going to spread some mind virus to others?
Maybe I just need to accept that freedom of speech truly exists nowhere anymore. Maybe I need to accept that ep was utterly and totally unique and perhaps for that uniqueness of total freedom, we all payed the price, as it was destroyed by being too hands off of users interactions in a lot of ways. For it seems we live in a changing time when freedom has lost its popular appeal, and *safety* has taken over the thrown of all things in importance,
Thank you for this thoughtful reply. You really are very intelligent and kind.
[c=#666666]@Eclipsed OK, I understand that it's the "sensitive" people here, with whom you have an issue. I don't really know anyone very well here on SW. I don't know if there is a small group of people trying to police the website, but even if that is the case, don't you think the admins will be capable of differentiating, in most cases? I understand that some things [b]are[/b] done automatically, but if you do follow the rules, I think there will be little trouble. It's something I have had to get used to as well. From your previous reply on this thread, I do understand that this website is very important to you, but I hate to hear someone describe "this group of people" and "the way things are going in this world" as factors which add to their sadness, because it won't get better, and it wasn't better in the past. It was different in the past, but there is and will always be issues. Therefore, the best we can do, is to focus on the positive. If you believe that there are in fact some users who are way out of line, my advice is to block them. Then they will not see your posts. It's OK to block people who bring you down, for whatever reasons.
[quote]Ever day I want to hurt myself and escape this terrible unending horror show in my mind. But how do I now post it if now I think I'm going to spread some mind virus to others?[/quote]
I believe you could simply have declared that it was an internal dialogue, in the post. You could also post it in a group which suggests this for you, like: "I Talk to Myself" or something of the sort. Importantly, as far as I understand, it is allowed to talk about the feelings which you're having, here on SW, as long as it cannot be misunderstood as a command or encouragement to other users.
Freedom of speech has always been an iffy concept. I do believe that in order to feel better, one must think less of these conundrums, especially if one is powerless to change them. I believe that if one must think about these things, one must act on them; get involved in politics, make their own website, etc. If one does not wish to do so, one must accept them as conditions, and stop thinking about them. Think about the little happy things in life, like the seasons changing. Plant something in the ground, smell the air.
You're most welcome. You surely think too much of me. I am a nobody, really.[/c]
