Have you ever?

@PepsiColaP I don't quite understand the last part? T[quote] there will always be someone to care,even if they are not a friend,and that is ok [/quote] can you elaborate?

@Eclipsed I find that if you reach out you will almost always find someone who cares. I think if we put less pressure on loved ones and our selves it would be easier to do so for strangers . I mean be there for those in need without necessarily being friends or having to develop a friendship. Just as you may need someone yourself at any given point for whatever reason,and people close to you may not be emotionally available at the time or willing,which for me are both acceptable. Just as it is not your job to always attend to your friends/lovers/family's (excluding children) emotional needs at all times.

@PepsiColaP this is the first time I've ever heard it put this way. Or anything like it. Because I do value you, I won't respond candidly and say something I might later regret. But that emotion is mixed with my feeling that I am grateful, and do feel
you answered this question 100 percent honesty. I do see a lot of merit in that.

@Eclipsed I am ok with anything you say. I think. But I respect your choice not to . And I hope we can be honest even if we don't agree

@PepsiColaP I think you are justifying selfishness. I think you don't like feeling responsible for your half of anyone's relationship with you or your behavior in how you might make them feel. I think you are denying some people something important out of resentment of some kind. I think you are deluding yourself to think you can somehow have a meanimgful relationship without feeling you have a significant role to play within that context, that part of a person's well being however big or small that part may be. Its like you are seeing everything in an abstract to benefit yourself alone and your desire to be free. But in reality freedom is an illusion.. its the denial of the human condition of interdependence and responsibility. I think you are just not wanting to take responsibility for anything you do or don't do as if you are some kind of emotional island.

So that's what I think. Not meant to be hurtful and I am not the best friend to people either. I am often shit, like deleting my profile and coming back time and time again. It is annoying and immature and it also is my attempt to be free of the commitment of being myself and having meaningful and important relationships here. So I am not above anyone and criticizing from a place of moral superiority.. because I am fucked up and though I am fucked up, being fucked up is no excuse for bad behavior.

@Eclipsed I dont think it is selfish to cater to my emotional needs before others. I mean what is the point of breaking yourself apart to ensure others are ok,for the moment,when everyone is only ever responsible for their own self to begin with?

@PepsiColaP how on earth is trying to do what you can to not hurt others by your behavior somehow related to breaking yourself apart? To me its some kind of past trauma manifesting in a behavioral loop that is perpetuating itself and protecting itself from something.

we are not at all on the same page. But you are being honest, like me. And that is going to have to be good enough

@Eclipsed sometimes my behaviour hurts others because I do not give them what they want. And that is ok too. I dont have to regardless of our relationship. As they dont have to either . It doesnt make me selfish ,not by my definition of the word anyway. Deliberately hurting them on the other hand,would be a different thing .
Agreed

@PepsiColaP in the context of friendship only.. in the context of a friendship where both feel they are on the same page.. not talking anything else, flirtation, sexual whatever, if we were talking about anything romantic with anyone I would agree 100 percent with you. I think maybe you are mixing these up? Seeing them somehow as the same..

or

Perhaps more likely, there are truly only a few people you truly believe to be actual friends and treat them with a greater sense of personal importance and emotional accountability. but there are many more people who you proclaim to be friends, but in name only, perhaps even pretend to be on the same page with. That you spread yourself far to thin with far to many people and in order to maintain these so called *friendships* you have to protect yourself emotionally, because inside you truly don't consider them friends. In this context your detachment from responsibility makes perfect sense.

No we are never ultimately obligated to do anything for anyone. This is abstraction and wishful thinking once more. You are not obligated to care for and be there for your mother, but you do and if you ignored her you would feel bad, because you would be betraying an internalized sense of responsibility for her emotional well being.

To me (if you truly consider someone a friend) you take on that emotional accountability not because you have to but because you want to, and if you truly feel they are friends you expect the same from them , but if you have decieved them into thinking you are closer to them than you actually are, all your logic makes sense. But that is just as bad as a deliberate transgression agaist them.. and that is indeed very selfish.

@Eclipsed I see now that this may be a difference on what we perceive to be a good friend or son/daughter,on our perception of duties . My parents have been open about wanting to be put into care home if they ever became incapable of taking care of themselves because of old age or illness, and in the worse case scenario of completely losing all autonomy I know they would want to be euthanized. That may be because they are children of migrants and migrants themselves ,and we all live far apart from each other and value our independence,but also as my mother puts it, you bring children into this life having a responsibility towards them,not them towards you. It is selfish to give life to someone and then expect them to put that life on hold to cater to your needs ,she wouldnt want that for her self and she wouldnt want that for us. And I agree. My parents give me a lot of space and this is how I see my relationships with most people in my life. We may go days without seeing each other and talk for an average of 5 minutes each day. They only care that I do well and trust in me and respect my space. And so I do in them . Even though I understand that they would probably love to spend a lot more time with me they also understand that that to care for someone it means to want them to do well. The selfish part is wanting to be reason of why they do well or spend time with them regardless of how they do because it makes you feel well. And so I dont see a reason to spend time with others unless if I want to ,and with my loved one I most usually want to do that for long hours when I get with them. But also I have other responsibilities to attend to,like school and work and my well being outside of those,which may include a lot of time to myself. And If my loved ones do not understand that as part of me doing well then that is none of my concern to attend to or prove to them,or sacrifice for them. Because if I'm not doing well then they do not love me. Just as me interfering with their career,or academic success ,or personal care,because I believe I deserve that time due to a title we may hold . That is what is selfish to me