Government sucks. We all know this. But did you know that it's a punishment we all somewhat deserve?

@Roundandroundwego anything that's subjective can be skewed to mean whatever someone wants.

So, yeah, I can see that being the case sometimes.

That's not why i believe it though. I base my claim on observing the impact of centralized and hierarchical governments, in the past and present, and from a strictly teleological lense.

@CynicalSpaceMan no, good is what acceptable societies aim for. Good has a basis in reality. You're talking as if that's something you'll never allow. I believe you! The West is like family to me!

@Roundandroundwego im not following what you mean...

@CynicalSpaceMan of course not. Reality based good government is an enemy, a threat to the US oligarchy.
Everyone is pretty good at learning and understanding until their job is threatened or their money is the topic.

@Roundandroundwego yeah we are just at a philosophical impasse.

I do not belive that a good centralized and hierarchical governments exists.

The best in the world; the nordic model, is so good specifically because it is less centralized and hierarchical than most.

Most other HC governments are apples to apples. Russia, US, China, UK, Canada, Mexico, etc.

They are on the same end of the suck spectrum. Is there space between them? Sure. But not as much as most would have one believe.

@CynicalSpaceMan good central government is the basis for peace and security, like Chinese people have today. Why else would the USA spend so much effort on inflaming conflicts and trying to break up countries? The USA itself is balkanized, fifty small easily dominated and corrupted states and no social welfare system that supports them or the population. Small government when it comes to the welfare of the population, biggest economy ever! Inequality that's famous for killing.
The Nordic model disgusts most actual socialists, it depends on anti social businesses, there's no efficient or public controlled economy in Scandinavia.