What is your definition of a woman?

@Queendragonfly What if the doctor was on drugs and misidentified the baby's genitals?

@Queendragonfly You mean by looking at her vagina?

@BlueVeins Then you can get a second opinion.

@sree251 No looking at the sex as in what's in between the legs.

@Queendragonfly Not to say your statement is wrong; just that it doesn't cover every person who's born into this world.

We have observed genotypes involving XXX, XXY, XYY and X0 (Turner syndrome) sex chromosomes. And we've observed human phenotypes with a range from no functioning sex organs to varying amounts of male & female sex organs on the same individual (these are often called intersex). Genetic mosaicism is where the X and Y chromosomes are expressed differently (from the most common expression) on different parts of the body (these phenotypes are also often described as intersex and sometimes hermaphrodite). Then there's androgen insensitivity syndrome. These are all observable biological phenomena that either God or Nature brings into the human family.

According to Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling, a recognized expert in this field of study, 1-1/2 to 2% of all births do not fall strictly within the tight definition of all-male or all-female, even if the child looks "normal." In reaching her numbers, Dr. Fausto-Sterling counted all incidents of intersexuality, from mild to extreme. The incidence of children with mixed genitalia is pegged at 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 3,000, or 0.033 to 0.05 percent of all births.

@ElwoodBlues Abnormal genitalia is a biological irregularity. It has no bearing on you as a normal person. Normal people have hands with five fingers. Some people have more or less than five fingers on their hands. They are still normal people like you and me. You are not defined by your body.

@sree251
Couldn't agree more

@sree251 Agreed. I only bring it up to point out that when one tries to classify people either according to chromosomes or genitalia, there will be people - members of the human family - who don't fit into either of the two simple categories. Nature is more complicated than that.

One could even go farther and say that the most complex sex organ of all is the human brain and we have essentially zero understanding of it; thus leaping to conclusions is unwise.

@ElwoodBlues What is there to understand about the human brain? It is part of the nervous system. It has nothing to do with us as thinkers.

@BlueVeins Abnormalities of the body do not define the person; however, if your body is normal, you live in conformance with its natural form as male or female within the order of society.

@sree251 well whoopdy ducking doo

I was referring to the general rule as those situations when they can't determine the correct sex, are the exception but I'm sure they have solutions for those cases too.

@Queendragonfly Agreed, most people fit easily into one of the two simple categories. However, others don't and are classified as "intersex." That's the "solution" for those cases.

@ElwoodBlues Are they classified as intersex and their parents call them neither boy or girl or how does it work? I have never heard of such a case so I'm not trying to be sexist or offending.

@Queendragonfly Maybe you've heard of "hermaphrodite" people? They have more or less both kinds of genitals, although usually sterile. I think people who are intersex have historically kept that fact very private. I think society doesn't yet know how to deal with such people. Others have very incomplete genitals.

I have no idea how these biological variations correlate with trans, non-binary, etc. I think low cost genetic testing is new enough that nobody really knows. Genetic mosaicism means some parts of the body can have XX chromosomes; other parts XY. So a simple cheek swab won't necessarily get all the info.

@ElwoodBlues Yeah I've heard that term before. So the opposite of intersex.

I don't think it's that secret anymore though. The argument for transgender or other genders always brings up XX and XY chromosomes fact so by now everyone knows that part.

@ElwoodBlues I think we should mind our own business if our personal genitalia is normal. Is your genitalia abnormal and you want to discuss your issues with us?

@Queendragonfly Why are you obsessed with this matter? Unless your genitalia is abnormal, it's not nice to look inside other people's pants.

@sree251 Obsessed? 😂😂🤣

I think it's called learning in my language. And last time I checked, that's not something to get snappy over.

Maybe ask yourself why you're so bothered by a conversation?

@Queendragonfly Why? It is not nice to talk about other people's woes. Imagine you having abnormal genitalia. Do you want the whole world looking into your pants? It is private and not something you wish on others.

@sree251 I don't particularly want to talk about anybody's genitals.

I DO however, want to welcome everyone to the human family. I don't want to make people feel marginalized or ostracized or ashamed just because they might be different from me. If some people feel differently about how they fit into the community, I don't want to condemn them for it.

Listen for a moment to this dad and his introduction to trans. He opened my eyes.
[media=https://youtu.be/h60YLGDJ6n0]

@ElwoodBlues I didn't listen to this dad. I know the drill. People who are different from you don't feel marginalized if you mind your own business and don't glare at them and regard them as freaks. Don't you have a life of your own to live? Making other people's abnormal genitalia a public matter for discussion is cruel.

@sree251 There you go again about the genitals. You are completely ignoring mosaicism. It is my firm belief that this attempt to force all of humanity into one or the other of two simple categories is marginalizing and shaming to some people. I think telling people "shaddup about your feelings" can be ostracizing.

I think society should be openhearted. You may not be a Christian (I'm not particularly Christian) but I think this "least among us" passage are words to live by:

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35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
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@sree251 I can block you if you don't know how to disengage from things you get triggered from.

Maybe you personally think it's offending but you're not the universal opinion and me and @ElwoodBlues are okay with discussing the subject. If you are against that, then leave. Don't start with silly insults or tantrums or try justify your behaviour here.

@ElwoodBlues I agree. We should inform and learn and talk about these things, to help people feel less alienated for not being traditional sexed or how to describe it (I'm not native in English) it should be as normal as speaking of the weather. No one should have to feel ashamed for their bodies.