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Don't you love getting new art supplies?

Ahh my mom doesn't understand how I need different brushes for different strokes, and how the cheap paint she insists I settle with does not blend properly. The paint she insists on buying is mainly for 10 year olds and stuff--kids not stupid enough to eat the paint, but (usually) not good enough to make anything meaningful. It's not for people who actually know how to art xD But my Rotom shirt got a fair bit of attention.
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atenra11
Well it depends what medium, you're dealing with. But you can get pretty reasonable paints on a budget.
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But on a reasonable budget, with reasonable art materials, and with reasonable parents. Otherwise they're flushing their money down the toilet. It's like parents who guy the junkiest of pianos or guitars or woodwinds for their children and they end up giving up music, wasting money on expensive lessons with junk instruments, and missed opportunity.
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You can get away with 4-5 brushes no problem with oils, even 1 or 2 good pig bristle will be perfect, like one flat and one round.
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50 dollars and you can have 2 of the best oil bristle brushes around from Raphael. As long as you know how to clean them properly with soap and turp/spirits etc and bristle treatment compounds. ideally for proper oil work you might need 10 types of each brush, so you don't blend colours too much and get them muddy on your canvas.
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Watercolour one tiny sable will be affordable and costs about the same as a pizza, you can also get a large squirrel for the price of a hamburger. You don't need a full set of Raphael from Paris in a case, or Winsor Newton Series 7's from London, or Isabey from France. etc.
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Acrylic brushes are cheap.
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And well colours, how many do you want, a bare minimum of six tubes and white, or buying anything on sale or a whole batch of oddballs?
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Some things will be impossible. You cant paint say in the impressionist style without loading the brush properly, and you need Flake White [Lead White] and Cobalt Blue and all the Victorian pigments.
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But you can get away with very good artists paints if you shop wisely, and a fair amount of student paints can be okay too.
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But one has to remember that for series artists, even the professional quality pigments can be disappointing in some shades and some manufacturers, etc etc.
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Seriously, you wanna paint like Dali, you go Blockx of Belgium, you wanna do it like Picasso you do it with Sennelier of Paris, and well 95% of the time you can go el-cheapo and get the evil smelling but decent quality for the money Utrecht Paints of New York which was what most all of the starving artists of the 1960s were using.
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Famous Oil people
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Blockx - Belgium - 60 tubes
Winsor Newton - England - 113 tubes
Lefranc Bourgeous - France - 123 tubes
Sennelier - France - 145 tubes
Schminke - Germany - 118 tubes
Old Holland - Holland - 168 tubes
Rembrandt - Holland - 121 tubes
Maimeri - Italy - 80 tubes
Holbein - Japan - 150 tubes
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The USA?
Da Vinci
David Davis [NYC] - 50 tubes
Gamblin - 70 tubes
Graham and Company - 50 tubes
Lapis Arts - 35 tubes
Shiva Oils - 84 tubes
Daniel Smith [Seattle] - 128 tubes
Utrecht
Williamsburg - 68 tubes
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newer American makers
Blue Ridge - 63 tubes
Robert Doak - 142 tubes
Occhuzzie - 36 tubes
Vasari - 98 tubes
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about 16 good makers of American Paint
England 4
France 4
Italy - Holland - 2
Germany - Japan - Belgium - Australia - Canada - 1
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The biggest nightmare is that the EU banned Lead paint for Artists use, the US had this debate 30 years ago, and immediately said, oh just house paint, sorry artists. And it made a lot of European paint makers to the Masters just feel they were destroying the Art Tradition of Europe.
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Hopefully people will come to their senses, as the EU seems to wanna ban vitamins, oil paints, lead solder for electronics for difficult lead free solders that make repairs VERY difficult and messy, so sometimes it's insane to make sweeping changes like that..... But people were shocked that slowly Lefranc and Sennelier and Blockx and Winsor Newton you just couldnt buy their lead white anymore.
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And well 90% of oil painting uses Titanium White anyways, but Zinc White and Lead White and Titanium White all mix differently and have their own Munsell Colour characteristics - tones/hues/etc.
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Watercolour you probably got about 16 makers of stuff and well, the colours are always so problematic and so are the compositions and binders that, most professionals and amateurs will be buying most every brand, for every maker or shade might be unique to each maker and it's extremely extremely variable.
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one famous artist that went into the chemistry had their own recommendations
and this is what their set of tubes were like
[yes it's a lot of tubes]
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Daniel Smith - 54
Winsor & Newton - 57
Holbein - 14
MaimeriBlu - 12
M. Graham - 20
Old Holland - 10
Rowney Artists - 5
Blockx - 5
Sennelier - 2
Schmincke - 4
Utrecht - 3
Rembrandt - 1
Art Spectrum - 1
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and well most beginners usually have like a dozen tubes.
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Acrylic?
oh boy
I'll just toss out my guesses
[I'm not gonna dump out my whole list of oils/watercolours/acrylics here, just a few of the more famous ones]
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Golden - USA [Super Heavy/Fluid/Heavy/Open/Classic]
a. Golden Heavy Body Artist Acrylics
b. Golden Historic Acrylic Paint
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Sennelier Extra-Fine Acrylique Paints [unsure]
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Lascaux - Switzerland 1963 - Lascaux and Aquacryl
a. Lascaux Artist
b. Lascaux Aquacryl
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M. Graham Acrylic Colors [excellent]
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Old Holland New Masters Classic Acrylics [excellent]
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Holbein [excellent but double the price of Old Holland or Golden]
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Pigment Sticks
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R&F Pigment Sticks - 90 colors
Sennelier
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Oil Pastels
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Sennelier
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Pastels
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Blockx
Caran D'Ache
Rowney
Sennelier
Unison
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Brushes [probably what i'd recommend]
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Arches
Escoda - Spain
Isabey
Kolonok - ?
Manet - larger mongoose than Raphael [Mongoose/Ox-Ear/Squirrel/Synthetic]
Raphael
Winsor Newton
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Anyhoo,
just my insane opinion lol
TetrisGuy · 26-30, M
I don't necessarily want to use lead-based paint. I often get covered in paint and have no proper place to paint, so I often get completely covered in it.

The thing is with me is that I'm very, very perceptive when it comes to the blue spectrum and not that sensitive to the red spectrum. I probably can recognize 10x more versions of blue than your average person. But to me, most reds look the same to me and the only difference I can see is in the shade, not the base color.

I paint in a variety of styles and on a variety of surfaces. I love t-shirt painting, and I can do it really well, but the picture will often flake off or become very dull quite fast because of how hard the paint becomes (el-cheapo paint again, the ones that are 99 cents to a 2 bucks per cup). Now of course I don't want the uber-expensive paints, but I'm *way* more than good enough to have to settle for paint that won't blend right. The red I have is more like dark red--and that's coming from someone that struggles to differentiate various red colors.

I can show you my art supplies that I've just purchased and the el cheapo paint that I have. I bought some... er... acceptable paint, I suppose, in neon colors and even one that's literally chalkboard paint. I've been wanting something like that but I never actually got the chance to do it properly. My parents insisted on me getting the spray version, and it didn't look good at all. Oh and the blackboard version wasn't there in Lowes--only green paint. I still want those chalkboards but I just asked for so much stuff and it's quite close to the time I have to go off to college. What I'm likely to do is get settled into my dorm, measure out the place, and find out where I can put the things. It was made for one of my walls and cut to those dimensions, but at this point...
atenra11
- I don't necessarily want to use lead-based paint.
Well do you wanna do oils?
maybe 90% of people who do oil painting since the 60s don't play with Lead White anymore. But there are usually cobalts, almost always cadmiums, and rarely arsenates. And well most everything is toxic, that's what Artists paints are all about. Proper respect for nasty chemicals, pigments and dyes.
This isnt jello powder you know.
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But if you wanna paint like the way people did from Leonardo to World War I, you'll deal with lead. unless you're in Europe where they virtually phased it out this decade, with about 99% of the art community bitching about it. America in the 70s made the distinction between house paints and speciality artistical applications with an exemption. Europe, not so smart. Considering how the whole tradition is over there. Some are hoping for sanity though.
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- I often get covered in paint and have no proper place to paint, so I often get completely covered in it.
Well now, maybe you need to think hard about actually using GOOD pigments. You'd going to have to fess up that yes there are messy painters out there and very neat ones, but Leonardo used to show off how disciplined he was that he could wear the finest velvet suit he had and paint and not get any shit on him.
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You'd gonna have to grow up to some degree and realize what the chemicals are, how safe and how risky they are, and like you can't just get a lot of stuff in your fingernails or in your mouth, or totally mess up a house either. You cant be a mechanic and smoke in the garage either lol
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If you wanna get messy you might have to sacrifice a lot of colour purity for kiddy safe art materials....
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You can properly paint in 2 square feet of floor if you put your mind to it. And you can train yourself to be as neat as possible, thinking every daub of paint is about as threatening as a bite from a Black Widow Spider.
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First Time i painted, i did it in someone's fancy old house as a guest, and i didnt wanna make a MESS or do what my friend did, put on some old shirt or paint smock. So after a few months and 2-3 smears on good clothing later, i learned my lessons FAST...... lol
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Oils are murder in that you often spend more time cleaning brushes than you do actually painting... and you learn not to waste paint or to save some of it for 'next day'
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You'll just need to go to the library and get out a book on Art Materials and read up on the safety stuff, if it's oil or acrylic or whatevers. or the web...
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And if you do a ton of surfaces, and t-shirts, maybe all you need is acrylic, or maybe you'll need different paints.
But it's pretty elementary that you need to know some safety about paint, and what's reasonable with messy and what's a possible health risk. Getting Ventilation etc. My friend who had her parents huge old house, she slept with like 14 drying paintings in her room and in the L shaped hallway and said, oh it doesnt bother her, but after a few weeks, she got really ill, and woosh, everytihng went in the hallway and another bedroom to dry for 2-14 days [depending on what pigments with the oils]
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And well with the stuff not blending right, colour theory.
Knowing what makes muddy colours and what makes clean colours.
How sometimes a tube is the colour you need with usually a slight tweak, or sometimes you need two tubes or more to make your greens. Sometimes one tube, and sometimes a mixture.
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Is that Red, a violet-red, or an orangey-red?
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One will make TERRIBLE purples with blue
One will make GOOD purples with blue
One will make TERRIBLE oranges with yellow
one will make GOOD oranges with yellow
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it's all about how reds will lean one way from the primary to violet
and other reds will lean the other way to orange.
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some blues will lean to
greenish blue
or some will bluish-purple
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- The thing is with me is that I'm very, very perceptive when it comes to the blue spectrum and not that sensitive to the red spectrum.
I call it crap, you're just fond of that colour.
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- I probably can recognize 10x more versions of blue than your average person. But to me, most reds look the same to me and the only difference I can see is in the shade, not the base color.
I call it crap... you mix enough paint, you play with enough coloured pieces of paper, you study enough charts, you'll see what you see.
Some colours are just hard to compare, it could be the lighting in the room, how light or how dark the colours are etc.
Yet i do think that it's possible red is possibly harder and maybe slightly more tricky for all humans.... but i think a deep purpley red like alizarin crimson is pretty different than some scarlet vermillion which looks like orange paint with a touch of red.
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is the red really PURPLE?
or is the red really really really ORANGEY RED?
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I paint in a variety of styles and on a variety of surfaces. I love t-shirt painting, and I can do it really well, but the picture will often flake off or become very dull quite fast because of how hard the paint becomes
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Well surface preparation and the proper paints for the proper surfaces are needed, otherwise you're totally wasting your time. You wanna wear a shirt and then others wear it and they are wearing the colour? and what if it's a near toxic green? or stains their sofa? You cant use oil paint on cardboard you'll ROT it. You need to gesso it with rabbit skin glues or acrylics and prep the surface, or worry if the masonite or paper is acid free or doesnt gas, or if the paint and the lighting will not FADE.
and remember pigments can STAIN
and can be poisonous
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You got to bone up on the
a. Art Materials Safety
b. Colour Theory
c. Preparation of surfaces
library books are great for this stuff, or buying it at the Art Store.
Same goes with the paint, you wanna be a painter, you're gonna tell your parents
only GOOD paint is in the ART stores.
And you engage with the salesman on price, safety, etc
your parents engage, and realize what a beginners start up will realistically cost.
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- el-cheapo paint again
flaking or colours going funny, might not just be the paint.
surfaces need to be compatible.
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- Now of course I don't want the uber-expensive paints, but I'm *way* more than good enough to have to settle for paint that won't blend right.
Well, i assume you're gonna go acrylic and well, i'd probably recommend you go with Golden. It's cheaper in the bigger containers, and you can get a lot of variety.
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Fabric paints you might need to be limited with your choices there. Do what the professionals do, the right paint for the right surface.
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- The red I have is more like dark red
well you can toss a brand and name, and with most any common brand
you can find out what the heck it is.....
or close to. Or get a colour chart from a paint store [art store that is, maybe lol] , next to every rack of paints and match it up!
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- and that's coming from someone that struggles to differentiate various red colors.
suuuuuuure lol
people do it with lipstick...
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though i think some people have an easier time picking shades than others.
And to make life simple - go acrylic, go with the late sam GOLDEN, He carried on the whole world of the guy before him who made the stuff in the 50s and 60s....
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Sam Golden (May 20, 1915 – March 11, 1997) started his paintmaking career in 1936 at Bocour Artist Colors with his uncle Leonard Bocour.
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In 1947 he developed Magna paint, the world's first artist acrylic paint. He returned from retirement in 1980 to found Golden Artist Colors Inc. based in New Berlin, New York, with his son Mark Golden.
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Sam and Leonard began by producing hand ground oil colors for artists in Manhattan as the New York School of Painters was coming into its own and New York City was becoming the arts center of the world. Artists like Willem de Kooning, Barnett Newman and Morris Louis were regular visitors at the Bocour shop on 15th street. They would set up their drawing pads or easels and draw or paint in the tiny shop. It was Sam's work directly with artists and the products he developed in collaboration with these painters that became the inspiration for his entire paint-making career. Sam is credited with the development of the first artist acrylic, the first phthalocyanine artist paints, the first iridescent artist colors, the first stable alizarin color in acrylic, the first stable zinc white in acrylic and the development of water tension breaker. Sam Golden died in upstate New York March 11, 1997.
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Reef182
i love the new brush smell XD
atenra11
i wonder if that's the paste some put in that keeps the fluffy stuff STIFF
like hairspray, cornstarch...
Reef182
ehh Idk
atenra11
quote
Paintbrushes when supplied new have usually been dipped in gum arabic solution (sold for watercolourists) to stick them in shape and protect them.
You are supposed to wash that out of them before use.
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and
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Hmm - it's just water-soluble cousin to starch. What's a bottle of Linit starch concentrate cost? Couple-3 dollars for a lifetime supply; use full strength.
edit: appears to be around $6, but that's for 64 ounces.
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From
www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=935566
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I'll take a guess but i think oil brushes with hog bristle will be cornstarch
and watercolour brushes with mink sable will be gum arabic...
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and the best watercolour brushes are female kolinksky mink sable pieces for the brush, like siberian minks sop up water better than other types of mink, and the females i guess are more bushy.
And well that's why they go from 15 bucks for tiny ones to 200-300 for the huge fat watercolour brushes. Squirrel will be used for price conscious lines for like 7-30 bucks.
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Some very thinned out with medium oils that need very smooth slick brushwork can use a sable, but you just use it for occasional oil water, and dontuse it for watercolours again. the oil will eventually clog the brush, or the risk is always there. but for 95-99% of oil, pig bristle is best.
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and you can get like fox and badger for like mops for wetting down a watercolour sheet and so on
and you can get the funny animals or you can get those weird synthetics, a few actually feel very close to real fibers...
RoyallyJustMe
My mothers the same
atenra11
aww crap, that troublemaker getting bounced this afternoon, destroyed half of the thread content. Wiping his comments off, wiped out the comments of me and half of the others too......
oh hell, I'll repost a piece of one
about what the best art supplies are by price catagories...
so you know what's crappy and what's worth it
Kaplan's list was the best research on 'some'
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Oil Paint Brands and Prices - Frederic Kaplan

Oil Paint
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$ ($0.075 - $0.297 per Ml.)
low priced student paint of Poor to Acceptable Quality

1 - Pebeo XL *
2 - Royal-Talens Amsterdam *
3 - Maimeri Classico
4 - Royal-Talens Van Gogh *
5 - Grumbacher Academy (the worst; don't waste your money)
6 - Daler-Rowney Georgian (marginal)
7 - Sennelier Etude (creamy consistency; good value)
8 - Schmincke Norma (buttery with good body; some colors overly fluid)
9 - Winsor & Newton Winton (among the poorest)
10 - Weber Permalba (gummy consistency; tubes are plastic)

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$$ ($0.321 - $0.358 per Ml.)
modestly priced student paint of Good Quality

1 - Jaurena Art Mir * [Dali and Miro used them]
2 - LeFranc & Bourgeois Artists *
3 - Richeson Oils Shiva * (I've heard good things about Shiva)
4 - Grumbacher Pre-tested (good paint at a reasonable price; cadmium colors are replaced by barium-cadmium pigments which are superior to "hue" versions of cadmium colors)
5 - Da Vinci Artists' (good body and color)

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$$$ ($0.416 - $0.550 per Ml.)
affordable professional paint of Fine Quality

1 - M. Graham Artists (ground in walnut oil; bright, clean colors; silky consistency; some colors overly fluid)
2 - Utrecht Permanent Artists (reliable paint at an economical price; good body; composite colors properly labeled as "hues")
3 - Gamblin Artists (gummy)
4 - Royal-Talens Rembrandt (some colors too fluid)
5 - Pebeo Fragonard *
6 - Winsor & Newton Artists (constently quality; buttery; well pigmented; colors clearly labeled)
7 - Sennelier Extra Fine (too creamy for me, but many artists rave about Sennelier; many composite colors not properly labeled as such)

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$$$$ ($0.608 - $0.705 per Ml.)
Professional grade paints that cost a bit more, but are of Excellent Quality

1 - Williamsburg Handmade (heavily pigmented; one of my favorites; some artists find the paints too stiff)
2 - Holbein Extra Fine (buttery; well made; numerous composite colors)
3 - Michael Harding (vibrant colors; carefully produced; silky consistency)

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$$$$$ ($0.791 - $ $1.100 per Ml.)
the most costly professional grade paints of Superior Quality

1 - Schmincke Mussini (contains a resin to facilitate glazing; buttery; rich color)
2 - Maimeri Puro (silky consistency)
3 - Old Holland Classic (extremely well pigmented; careful manufacturing methods and selection of materials; possibly the best quality oil paint available)
4 - Blockx (excellent, but overpriced; some colors overly fluid)


Water Mixable Oil Paint
--------------------------------
An option for those who are sensitive to the solvents used with traditional oil paints, although my own experience with these paints has been disappointing.

1 - Royal-Talens Van Gogh H2Oils* ($0.181 per Ml.)
2 - Winsor & Newton Artisan ($0.281 per Ml.)
3 - Grumbacher MAX* ($0.351 per Ml.)
4 - Holbein Duo Aqua ($0.488 per Ml.)


Acrylic Paint
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$ ($1.30 - $1.87 per oz.)
low priced student paint of Poor to Acceptable Quality

1 - Liquitex Basics Matte (poor covering power; lifeless color)
2 - Liquitex Basics (poor covering power; lifeless color)
3 - Royal-Talens Amsterdam Standard*
4 - Grumbacher Academy (marginal at best)

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$$ ($2.10 - $2.35 per oz.)
modestly priced paint of Good Quality

1 - Daler-Rowney System 3 *
2 - Winsor & Newton Galeria (excellent value; good body and color)
3 - Golden Super Heavy Body (reasonable price; quality paint)

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$$$ ($3.92 - $4.55 per oz.)
more expensive paint of Excellent Quality

1 - Golden Fluid (well pigmented)
2 - Liquitex Soft Body (buttery; strong color; good handling)
3 - Liquitex Heavy Body (well pigmented; good coverage)
4 - Royal-Talens Amsterdam Expert *
5 - Utrecht Artists (good pigmentation and body; decent paint at reasonable price)
6 - Maimeri Polycolor *
7 - Golden Heavy Body (excellent color; good coverage; heavily pigmented)

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$$$$ ($5.35 - $6.90 per oz.)
very expensive paint of Superior Quality

1 - Golden Open (remains workable up to several hours, unlike other acrylic paints, which dry in a few minutes; excellent product)
2 - M. Graham *
3 - Golden Classic (highly recommended; well pigmented; buttery; good coverage)
4 - Maimeri *
5 - Old Holland Masters *

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$$$$$ ($11.19 per oz.)
the most expensive paint of Superior Quality

1 - Holbein* (twice the price of next most expensive brand; hard to justify)


Watercolor Paint
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$ ($0.42 - $0.53 per Ml.)
low priced student paint of Poor Quality

1 - Royal-Talens Van Gogh *
2 - Grumbacher Academy (exceptionally poor paint; colors tepid; some colors pasty)
3 - Winsor & Newton Cottman (exceptionally poor paint; colors tepid; some colors pasty)

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$$ ($0.80 - $1.18 per Ml.)
modestly priced paint of Fair to Good Quality

1 - M. Graham Artists *
2 - Da Vinci Artists (reliable paint; strong color; good value)
3 - Daler-Rowney Artists *
4 - Utrecht Artists (decent paint at fair price)
5 - Maimeri Blu (decent paint)
6 - Schmincke Horadam *

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$$$ ($1.29 - $1.36 per Ml.)
more expensive paint of Excellent Quality

1 - Holbein Artists (creamy; excellent color)
2 - Winsor & Newton Artists (strong pigmentation; sparkling color)
3 - Sennelier (vibrant color; consistency too juicy; some colors dry to unpleasant sheen)

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$$$$
($1.44 - $1.95 per Ml.)
expensive paint of Superior Quality

1 - Pebeo Fragonard *
2 - Royal-Talens Rembrandt *

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$$$$$ ($2.35 per Ml.)
most expensive paint of Outstanding Quality

1 - Old Holland Classic * (I've not used this brand, but if it is made with the same care as the company's oil paints, it is most likely worth the price)

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TetrisGuy · 26-30, M
Hmm I'll keep this safe for use in college when I can buy my own stuff.
Oh and I'll let you know what classes I'll be choosing. On the 14-15th I have a preview session
juju786
Pebbles1982

 
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