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Atheism is a rejection of the assertion, "there is a god," and it is NOT necessarily the belief that there isn't a god.

There is a pervasive misconception about atheists that goes as such: "Atheists believe there isn't a god. Therefore, they have just as much faith as any religious person." While that argument is valid, it's unsound; that is, the conclusion is ba<x>sed on the faulty assumption that atheists believe there isn't a god; while that certainly is the case for some (probably few, actually) atheists, it isn't the case for all atheists. I don't believe there's a god because I haven't been presented with reasonable, acceptable evidence for his existence, and so it would be unwarranted for me to assume that he doesn't exist. I reject the assertion, "there is a god," but, in so doing, I am NOT claiming that the assertion is false; I am essentially saying that I can't be sure that the assertion is true, and so I won't accept it as truth, and I can't justifiably claim that it's false. After all, absence of evidence is indeed not evidence of absence. Ya dig?

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Lushiro

So Atheists are closet-agnostics?

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

Like I said, not all atheists are agnostic. Also, they're not closeted; people just don't realize they're agnostic to begin with.

Lushiro

Alright so why do you reject the idea of a supreme being/higher power existing?

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

It's in the details. "I don't believe there's a god because I haven't been presented with reasonable, acceptable evidence for his existence"

Lushiro

Yes and you are open about possible evidence right? Then do you believe there is evidence of God's existence somewhere within the world that you haven't discovered yet?

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

Yes, I am certainly open to evidence. I think it's possible that there's evidence.

Lushiro

That's great :D What type of evidence would be sufficient for you since it's different for everyone with what's satisfactory? Be it, empirical, scientific, physical, analogical, testimonial, miscellaneous, etc.

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

The first two would certainly suffice, provided they're legitimate.

Lushiro

Hmm...I could offer one or few things...but I am not sure how you would respond or react to it.

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

I probably won't accept it, but that's okay. :) Shoot!

Lushiro

Well if you won't accept it (not that you have to, the point is introduction) will you at least consider and think over it? I suppose it would have to be convincing enough.

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
I'll certainly consider and think over it.

Lushiro

I remember that quote, but to accept something means to believe it's true or partly true, so I guess it's all about perspective and relativity. :) But before I link you, what is your opinion on God? Do you know what he is and what he should be capable of?

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

No, I don't. I guess I don't really have a specific idea of how he should be if he were to exist.

Lushiro

I see so you don't even know what you're rejecting? 0_0 Lol. When people talk about God do you think they're talking about some mythological Zeus, Thor, Horus, etc? Or a supreme being and creator?

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

Haha. :) I think they're talking about whichever god they believe in. I think you're talking about the Christian god. I used to be a Christian, actually, and I was saved on multiple occasions. :) I would say that I always doubted more than I ever believed, and it was when I tried to understand Christianity more that I became an atheist.

Lushiro

Haha :) Yes I am talking about Yahweh since..he's the only one who asserted to create the heavens (space) and the earth. Oh really? That's pretty interesting. What confused you about Christianity? Did it have to do with immoral followers who give it a bad name or was it the principles and philosophies? I understand doubts though...but without doubts how can we test our faith and strengthen it? In fact doubt only increases the strength of your faith and keeps you on your toes. If you're incapable of critically challenging your own faith through, prosecutions, questioning and argumentative debates that oppress it, your faith has little to no grounds or substance. Correct? So doubt is very good! :)

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

Well, that would take a great deal of time to explain, but it started with the seemingly conflicting concepts of an omnibenevolent god and hell. And I just don't like the idea of using faith to know what's true. I mean, if you need faith to believe something, how do you know for certain that the something in which you believe isn't incorrect and that something else which contradicts your belief isn't correct? I just don't see faith as a reliable pathway to truth. That said, honestly, I wish more Christians were like you - not so hateful and less contemptuous.

Lushiro

I understand. But God cannot force people to love him or choose him that's why we have free-will, but hell created for Satan and his fallen-angels, not us! But people who do such heinous and malicious things condemn themselves there by first denying God's existence knowing he's there to begin with in order to fully carry out evil since they reject the existence of eternal punishment and consequences.(there are many, look at the news!). Would you like someone like Hitler to go to heaven after what he did to the Jews? There has to be a divine justice for acts like that, eternal punishment for evildoers who suffer after death for what they've done. :/ (If you wanna talk about faith and all that would you like to PM me instead of talking here? It'll become a book lol)

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

Funny thing, free will. I actually don't believe we have it. :) In contemplating what would make someone deserve to suffer eternal torment, I began to think more about causality, and I ended up believing in determinism. Also, there's still an important problem with an eternal hell if we do have free will: what can someone do on earth that would make them deserve to be punished ceaselessly? What's worse: What Hitler did? Or someone being punished without end?... Eternal punishment just seems so senseless and unbelievably cruel to me. I mean, the only purpose it serves is to punish, and that just seems so terrible. Also, if you believe that god is omnipotent (I know you haven't said it explicitly, but I'm assuming that's what you believe), why doesn't he save everyone?... Haha. :) Sure. Would you mind starting it?

Lushiro

Strange, think about it this way, free-will is the ability to make choices, we are not slaves to ourselves or anyone else, we do exactly as we decide consciously and morally. If free-will did not exist, then we'd be merely drones following orchestrated perfections of God's will, which means: this world would perfect and only moral good wold exist, there would be no errors or bad choices. Would you prefer a totalitarian God? lol. What could someone do to deserve eternal punishment? Something similar to Hitler's crime or worse, global genocide, I think you can go too far...enough to the point where you're so far in the dark that God cannot reach out to you no matter how hard he tried. He doesn't want anyone to go to hell quite frankly, it breaks his heart when people doom themselves there by rejecting him, not repenting for their sins (if people didn't repent and their sin stained souls were taken to heaven where sins do not exist then that would cause another Lucifer event more likely...). I still think The Holocaust is completely unforgivable. But God would give him a chance if he was TRULY sorry, remorseful and wanted to change in his heart. But he can only save who comes to him willingly. God has unlimited power but he will not use it to interfere with our free-will without our consent, we have to allow him otherwise, he can call out to us sure but he won't force us to do anything we don't want to. I think God will try to save people that are in hell by using people's suffering to purify their souls so they can be redeemed, (according to Catholics this can be done). (This is what hell is like: http://divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm)
I'm going to bed but I'll link you to one of my stories in the mean time, take your time reading it and analyzing it since it's kinda long lol! Goodnight, great talking with you :)

OrWhatever · 26-30, M

I'll talk to you later, then. And great talking with you as well.

Lushiro

Could you PM me? I cannot send you a message for some reason, won't go through.