Ancient Greece and reason.

@Alyosha No one becomes upset because they believe they do not deserve what happened to them. This is not something we care about. Man suffers when he loses what he has laid claim to. That is what it is all about.

Science does not deal with emotion. Psychiatry pretends it deals with the mind, yet all it can do is medicate. Psychology is not science. It is hocus-pocus. Given there are no fields to deal with emotion, I don't know what we are supposed to know about emotion beyond acknowledging it is simultaneously primal and ghost-like. Primal in that it is our most base instincts at the helm, and ghost-like in that it appears and disappears as it pleases. It is not seen by others, only felt by us, while existing within and beyond us. Stoicism is not control, but a numbed and wearied feeling.

Philosophy is the probing of the senses. And sometimes-descriptor. Nietzsche has the answers for the individual, but not for the group. To Nietzsche, it is not about the group.

I think the Greeks had a journey. A voyage. The Stoics are nothing like the Greek gods. Something happened. It was a revelation. They became sober-minded. Logos was foreign, not yet known, to the early Greek philosophers.

@SW-User Psychology has forgotten Freud, but Freud was right. He turned psychology into a science, and for the service he was relegated to the deconstructionist's office. I made the mistake of studying psychology without Freud once, and that is pretty much just IQ tests at that point.

@Alyosha Freud was right about nothing. The man was a freak-thing. Psychologists are freak-things.

What is most obvious is never obvious to the psychologist. And what is most absurd is the most sane to the psychologist. Psychology is presumptive. It is speculative. Reality is physics, chemistry, and biology. It is these that makes things happen. God also. But He is the maker of these things, the thing setting them in motion.

You should stick to philosophy. Psychologists are fruitcakes who call others fruitcakes. Who the hell cares?

@SW-User Freud was beyond insightful. The history of the organism can be suppressed, but it comes back in other forms. Psychology is a difficult science, but not a pointless one. There is much in the psyche that can go unobserved for years. But the logical connections between stimulus and response start in childhood and go from there. If you want to talk about standard psychological practice these days, then there is much to be desired. The best of therapy these days is more or less what the Stoics had, change your thinking about things. But it doesn't go into depth. It doesn't uncover the complexes developed in childhood that persist throughout life. Sometimes they talk about schemas, but instead of going into why you have a schema or what it is that is causing the dysfunction in the schema, they go with standard CBT change-your-thinking. And in research the sample sizes are just too small to get good data from. I've studied paychology almost as long as philosophy. My introduction was Nietzsche.

@Alyosha To change is all we can do. This is a common sense practice. Who has the time for anything but change?

The complex comes from God, and from the things that are ghost-like. It is not that they are unexplored, nor that there is anything to explore; it is that they are beyond our realm. It is nature in motion and God in motion.

@SW-User Even if everything bears a causal relationship to God, God does not merely ride roughshod over us. These complexes arise through our own reasoning processes, often when these processes fail. They are indicative of how we chose to react or what we chose to believe. God can be left out of the equation. They are our failings and ours to repair.

@Alyosha Introspection can be a good thing. Yet it is not us aligning the stars. And you better catch the train before it leaves.

@Alyosha The universe is what matters, and all the things in it, of which we are only one.

@SW-User The universe is mostly inert. You can do what you will with it. Rational agents are different. We feel and we desire. Some things are good for us, others not. But as agents capable of doing good, we have worth and are to be taken into consideration.

@Alyosha To what extent? How much does the universe consider us?

I think it is the universe that does what it wills with us.

@SW-User The universe without us animals is mostly rock. It doesn't have a will. We do.

@Alyosha Are you certain it has no will?

@SW-User As certain as I am about anything empirical. Will is an impulse modified by an object. Rocks aren't intentional. They lack any part for processing such impulses or having intentionality.