Do you believe that data on the internet is there forever?
Regardless of the actual hard facts of it(which are [i]very[/i] complicated and anything but straightforward), what's your personal feelings?
31-35, M
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JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
Forever is a long time.
Forever is longer than the life of the Universe, perhaps, too. Unless the endpoint of time is when this Universe ends (assuming it does). Yet what if there are many universes? Is forever measured with respect to the time of a universe? Or is there a forever attached to the multiverse? Or does every wordline have its own local conception of forever? And would two objects both measure the same perception of forever?
If one person falls into a black hole, I presume to this person their time ends when they fall into the singularity. But if I am safely in orbit on the outside and view this person reaching the event horizon, I think to me they would appear to freeze and their clock would appear to stop, and would persist like that for a while, I presume, except perhaps from erosion due to quantum effects. Yet even black holes die, so it would not be forever, I suppose. But I am no expert. Someday I want to understand it all, though. I have just been too lazy to try and tackle all the math.
As for my lifetime, I presume that anything I say or do can and may be stored somewhere for a long time. So even if I think things are private, I still watch what I say. I live 10 miles from NSA headquarters and do not trust them, or the corporations. Oh and then there are foreign spies.
Heck, I bet this post will now be flagged by the NSA for archiving just because it has the word NSA in it. Twice! It will be on some server in Utah, most likely.
Forever is longer than the life of the Universe, perhaps, too. Unless the endpoint of time is when this Universe ends (assuming it does). Yet what if there are many universes? Is forever measured with respect to the time of a universe? Or is there a forever attached to the multiverse? Or does every wordline have its own local conception of forever? And would two objects both measure the same perception of forever?
If one person falls into a black hole, I presume to this person their time ends when they fall into the singularity. But if I am safely in orbit on the outside and view this person reaching the event horizon, I think to me they would appear to freeze and their clock would appear to stop, and would persist like that for a while, I presume, except perhaps from erosion due to quantum effects. Yet even black holes die, so it would not be forever, I suppose. But I am no expert. Someday I want to understand it all, though. I have just been too lazy to try and tackle all the math.
As for my lifetime, I presume that anything I say or do can and may be stored somewhere for a long time. So even if I think things are private, I still watch what I say. I live 10 miles from NSA headquarters and do not trust them, or the corporations. Oh and then there are foreign spies.
Heck, I bet this post will now be flagged by the NSA for archiving just because it has the word NSA in it. Twice! It will be on some server in Utah, most likely.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Hahaha, if only the NSA had that kind of manpower to spare. I doubt they spend exponentially growing amounts of resources on holding onto people's telecommunications, nor do I think that's really even financially sustainable, but that's just me.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
@UndeadPrivateer Every time I drive past their headquarters (which looks like an unremarkable campus of glass office buildings) I imagine that it is only a front, and that underground is a huge complex, sort of like the Krell complex in Forbidden Planet. Hee hee.
But I know about data reliability. Even though they say they back up the servers at work daily, I back up my stuff to my work laptop (as much as I can fit). Then I back up my laptop files onto servers. Yet, once a few server drives failed all at once. It was a Thursday yet when they restored things the file I had been working on was last saved on Sunday. So they lied when they said they backed things up every night. So I lost a few days of work on an Excel file. Fortunately it only took me a day to regenerate it from memory. I felt so smart!
At home, I have been having problems with Windows 10 updates this year (they keep failing), and so when I asked Best Buy (where I got the computer) for help, they said they could look at it, yet I might need a wipe and clean install. Also, they suggested I get a new computer (unscrupulous salespeople!). I delayed, and tried to figure it out myself. I eventually figured out a workaround on my own (I had to disable a wireless LAN startup service, which I do not use). Yet the experience woke me up, since I had no backups of anything. Now I have backups on the cloud, my phone, and a thumb drive. I also back up stuff from my phone to my computer (and the thumb drive).
Another problem I have found is software compatibility. There are many 20+ year old Word documents on servers at work that can no longer be read using the current version of Word we use. Some old documents I have to open in NotePad or WordPad. So I now make a habit of periodically going through old Office documents and opening them and resaving them as new Word documents. Some conversion usually occurs. Then I delete the old file. I have 20 years of files, reports, data, etc. Most I never look at. But occasionally somebody asks about something from a few years ago, even a decade ago, and I find it and share!
Over the years I have written papers for the American Statistical Association annual meetings. My first paper was in 2002. It is still there when I search for it in Google, located on the website of my employer. And occasionally I get e-mails out of the blue asking about it! And other papers.
But I know about data reliability. Even though they say they back up the servers at work daily, I back up my stuff to my work laptop (as much as I can fit). Then I back up my laptop files onto servers. Yet, once a few server drives failed all at once. It was a Thursday yet when they restored things the file I had been working on was last saved on Sunday. So they lied when they said they backed things up every night. So I lost a few days of work on an Excel file. Fortunately it only took me a day to regenerate it from memory. I felt so smart!
At home, I have been having problems with Windows 10 updates this year (they keep failing), and so when I asked Best Buy (where I got the computer) for help, they said they could look at it, yet I might need a wipe and clean install. Also, they suggested I get a new computer (unscrupulous salespeople!). I delayed, and tried to figure it out myself. I eventually figured out a workaround on my own (I had to disable a wireless LAN startup service, which I do not use). Yet the experience woke me up, since I had no backups of anything. Now I have backups on the cloud, my phone, and a thumb drive. I also back up stuff from my phone to my computer (and the thumb drive).
Another problem I have found is software compatibility. There are many 20+ year old Word documents on servers at work that can no longer be read using the current version of Word we use. Some old documents I have to open in NotePad or WordPad. So I now make a habit of periodically going through old Office documents and opening them and resaving them as new Word documents. Some conversion usually occurs. Then I delete the old file. I have 20 years of files, reports, data, etc. Most I never look at. But occasionally somebody asks about something from a few years ago, even a decade ago, and I find it and share!
Over the years I have written papers for the American Statistical Association annual meetings. My first paper was in 2002. It is still there when I search for it in Google, located on the website of my employer. And occasionally I get e-mails out of the blue asking about it! And other papers.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Haha, I think it more likely it'd just be an office full of IT workers and the military base is elsewhere entirely if that is the case. One of my exes grew up near Cheyenne Mountain. Which genuinely [i]is[/i] that kind of crazy max security underground military complex. Though I doubt it much looks like the Krell one, fun as Forbidden Planet's imagery is. :P More likely just looks like a bunch of labs, testing chambers and loading docks.
Yeah coordinated hardware failures are a really serious problem. Which has become an increasingly real problem people should be paying attention to, though most are not, as things like a modern day Carrington Event could easily knock out our entire civilian data network that much of modern commerce relies on and cause so much damage it may take decades to even get it back to functionality. And of course the vast majority of any data stored on it(basically the entire internet and "dark web") would be irrevocably gone or horribly corrupted beyond full recovery.
Data reliability is a problem too when you start getting into the mirroring thing. Each copy of the data will tend to have a gradually increasing number of errors and, over time, can accumulate enough errors that the corruption makes it either unusable or at least very obviously degraded from its previous form.
The software compatiblity is digging into one of the [i]really[/i] big reasons why data isn't forever, actually. Data obsolescence is a really big problem in keeping around old data and one of the biggest struggles that academic data archive efforts run into, becoming even more obvious as technology is continuing to progress even further. If not for those academic data archival efforts though we'd have an [i]even worse[/i] problem with that with academic research.
Yeah coordinated hardware failures are a really serious problem. Which has become an increasingly real problem people should be paying attention to, though most are not, as things like a modern day Carrington Event could easily knock out our entire civilian data network that much of modern commerce relies on and cause so much damage it may take decades to even get it back to functionality. And of course the vast majority of any data stored on it(basically the entire internet and "dark web") would be irrevocably gone or horribly corrupted beyond full recovery.
Data reliability is a problem too when you start getting into the mirroring thing. Each copy of the data will tend to have a gradually increasing number of errors and, over time, can accumulate enough errors that the corruption makes it either unusable or at least very obviously degraded from its previous form.
The software compatiblity is digging into one of the [i]really[/i] big reasons why data isn't forever, actually. Data obsolescence is a really big problem in keeping around old data and one of the biggest struggles that academic data archive efforts run into, becoming even more obvious as technology is continuing to progress even further. If not for those academic data archival efforts though we'd have an [i]even worse[/i] problem with that with academic research.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
I am still not fully plugged-in with all I do in my life, thankfully. I still deal with paper forms and checks, and still mail stuff!
I am still partly in the last century. I grew up in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's, and did not actually use computers heavily until I got to college in '92. It was a neat time in college, since websites and browsers first became mainstream. We all thought it was so cool!
Yet before college, nearly all my education was from lectures and reading books and writing on paper with pencil or pen. I often wonder if I had grown up now would it be better or worse? Perhaps better due to the ability to research things online and edit documents. Yet perhaps worse due to the easy online distractions.
I am still partly in the last century. I grew up in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's, and did not actually use computers heavily until I got to college in '92. It was a neat time in college, since websites and browsers first became mainstream. We all thought it was so cool!
Yet before college, nearly all my education was from lectures and reading books and writing on paper with pencil or pen. I often wonder if I had grown up now would it be better or worse? Perhaps better due to the ability to research things online and edit documents. Yet perhaps worse due to the easy online distractions.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Unfortunately no saving grace with a Carrington Event sort of scenario. One of the features of it was not only the damage it did on electronics but also that it sparked a bunch of fires. It happened at a time when wiring wasn't as widespread as it is today(pretty much only telegraphs at the time) so thankfully it wasn't cataclysmic, but in the current day that pretty much means any documents in a building made of flammable materials and with power is at risk.
Online distractions really are the bane of many's focused academia. XD
Online distractions really are the bane of many's focused academia. XD
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
I confess I had to look that up, since I had never heard of it before.
I have not been in academia for 2 decades, and I never want to go back. I just want to work the last 10-15 years of my career without a lot of stress, and then retire in peace. I never want to work another day in my life. I am spent.
I just hope retirement won't be so crushingly lonely and hopelessly boring as my life now. At least I will have more free time and perhaps be more awake and relaxed to maybe start some intellectual pursuits. Right now when I get home from work I do not want to think.
I have not been in academia for 2 decades, and I never want to go back. I just want to work the last 10-15 years of my career without a lot of stress, and then retire in peace. I never want to work another day in my life. I am spent.
I just hope retirement won't be so crushingly lonely and hopelessly boring as my life now. At least I will have more free time and perhaps be more awake and relaxed to maybe start some intellectual pursuits. Right now when I get home from work I do not want to think.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence It's something not often mentioned, honestly, which is a little worrying. Was a solar flare in the late 1800s that caused a Coronal Mass Ejection which collided with the Earth and created massive geomagnetic storms. So powerful they actually caused telegraphs to melt and wires to explode and catch fire all around the world. CMEs can really wreak havoc on modern electronics even when they don't directly strike, but if/when(really just a matter of when) they do again our infrastructure is [i]not[/i] set up to deal with it at all. It'd be absolutely crippling.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Caused worldwide auroras, though, which was pretty neat. All the way down to the equator. So we'd have pretty lights to look at while modern society implodes.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
@UndeadPrivateer There is a state park in northern Virginia, on the east side of the Blue Ridge, called Sky Meadows. I used to live in VA 8 years ago. Once a month an astronomy club would meet in this park. I went once, and got to peer into other people's telescopes. I saw the moons of Jupiter with my own eyes for the first (and only) time of my life.
Then there was an aurora! It was faint but spectacular. Lots of ooos and aahhs.
Then there was an aurora! It was faint but spectacular. Lots of ooos and aahhs.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Very nice! When I was in elementary school we had a local astronomy club come in and lend all of their telescopes for a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn so all the kids could look at them. Seeing Saturn's rings with my own eyes was what caused me to suddenly get really really into astronomy and the interest has stuck ever since.
My grandmother grew up in rural Wisconsin and she mentioned that they occasionally get aurora over there.
My grandmother grew up in rural Wisconsin and she mentioned that they occasionally get aurora over there.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
That sounds like fun. I got interested in astronomy when I watched the original Cosmos show as a boy. But I never got into telescopes, and stuff like that. It was mostly books. Then later my interest focused more on geology. Yet I took all sorts of courses so could have followed other paths. I went to college thinking I was going to be a geologist, but also took math. After one year I decided science was not for me, I liked math more. With math, it did not need to be real, just logical. I was hooked. While in college I minored in CS. Which is good, because most of my day is spent writing SAS programs (it is a statistical package).
I have never been to Wisconsin. I have flown over it on my way to Minneapolis, though.
I have never been to Wisconsin. I have flown over it on my way to Minneapolis, though.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Hard to go wrong with a CS degree these days, honestly. One of the most utilitarian degrees one could get in a world run by technology, haha. My major was effectively a CS degree, though it was titled VGP(Visual and Game Programming) instead as it also had art and design courses in it. Still considered an accredited science degree though.
As a child I was really really into physics and chemistry and had always kind of wanted to get into those as a profession, but the more I learned about the reality of science jobs(80-95% of your time is spent doing paperwork, basically, with only a small portion of time actually preparing and performing experiments) the more I really didn't like the sound of it. So I went for something that combined the things I liked about science with a healthy dose of creativity and without having to deal with the bureaucracy side of things. All that said, though, I do sometimes wish I'd gone for that astrophysics degree instead. :/
As a child I was really really into physics and chemistry and had always kind of wanted to get into those as a profession, but the more I learned about the reality of science jobs(80-95% of your time is spent doing paperwork, basically, with only a small portion of time actually preparing and performing experiments) the more I really didn't like the sound of it. So I went for something that combined the things I liked about science with a healthy dose of creativity and without having to deal with the bureaucracy side of things. All that said, though, I do sometimes wish I'd gone for that astrophysics degree instead. :/
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
@UndeadPrivateer Well, there is still time to go back to school.
Oh, I know about bureaucracy. I work for the federal government!
Oh, I know about bureaucracy. I work for the federal government!
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence Very true, it's never too late to learn more.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
@UndeadPrivateer I just wish some things would finally sink in. I keep making stupid mistakes in life. Sigh.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
@JoyfulSilence We all do, I think. Life lessons, they never cease.